中式英語問題(Chinglish)

我不敢肯定是不是中式英語, 但我相信以上兩個句子可以表達得更好, 或應交待多些資料.

(1) happened vs took place?
翻查不少字典都沒有交待 happen 和 take place 有何分別. 如說 When something takes place, it happens. 但如果再多看例句, 又會覺得不可以隨意對換使用的. The festival takes place here every year. 再查考 Longman Contemporary English Dictionary 時, 說明 happen 有關的 event 是 especially one that is not planned. 所以, 如果說是 The story happened in China 會較好. 而若果想說一個兒童故事, 似乎外國人的傳統習慣是以 Once upon a time in China, there ........

(2) patients enjoy medical care?
我覺得在外國人的眼中, 很難想像為何人可以喜歡或享受醫療服務, 但若果他們知道國內很多同胞來港生子的作風時, 便會明白這是有可能的事. 所以我認為可以加些補充資料在句子中: The patients from Mainland China do 'enjoy' the high-quality-but-free medical care in Hong Kong.......

2006-11-29 10:19:13 補充：
但如果句子的原意沒有針對國內人的意思, 則不如用 satisfy. 如說 (Local) patients are (generally) satisfied with the medical care provided by (the government).

2006-11-29 21:21:46 補充：
或者可以親自查字典看清楚, happened, occurRed, 及 taken place 是否可以有 was/were 加在前面.

2006-11-29 22:28:43 補充：
如果意思是nuke所指的享有, 用entitle一字可寫成: The (local?) patients are entitled to (free?) medical treatment / care.

2006-11-30 10:54:40 補充：
If 'was taken place' is acceptable, perhaps the following is wrong:http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Take_place (last modified 15:26, 22 November 2006)

2006-12-01 09:40:32 補充：
「是否漏了 article, 又或者 medical care 應否加 services/system 的問題」請提出者也求證一下是否真的如此.

2006-12-01 10:03:26 補充：
另外, 故事也有分真假的, 若Bilingue你說的是真人真事, happened 或 took place 便沒有問題, 反之, 便應考慮以 once upon a time in china 開始了.

2006-12-01 14:36:09 補充：
「第二句根本未去到要考究 enjoy 是否恰當, 是否漏了 article, 又或者 medical care 應否加 services/system 的問題. 」可能我錯誤理解你的說話罷, (現在的quotation是否算是完整呢?) 「你」之前的補充「是否想表達, 可能要寫成 THE medical care; medical care SERVICES; medical care system?」我唔知, 所以問你, 如果我誤解, 對不起.

2006-12-01 15:23:13 補充：
最後想澄清, 我一「開始」已表明「我不敢肯定是不是中式英語」,但樓主的問題似已肯定了是有問題, 想大家說如何有問題, 我的思想方向就是從這方面入手. 另外我我剛到英語聊天室問過外國人, 有兩位表示沒有問題. 所以我最後的想法是, 或許老師及學者們會執著took place是否可用於story之後, 但普通的eng speakers都不會介意的. END OF STORY

2007-02-02 22:53:56 補充：
probably the most 「valuable」 best ans ever got

I don't think they are wrong or Chinglish at all. People tend to patronise others as if they are more superior.

Just that I think 'enjoy’ in sentence 2 should mean ‘entitle’ or ‘have the benefit of‘.
該等病人在港享有醫療福利。

2006-11-30 10:00:41 補充：
English is such an irregular language. 'was taken place' is just odd, it could mean 'was forced to happen'.

2006-11-30 14:37:59 補充：
Don't get me wrong. 'was taken place' shouldn‘t be used here. What I was trying to say is that it could mean something else in other context. That’s all.

有事發生了才成為故事，既然是已發生了，怎會用現在式（第三身單數) 的 occurs? 當然是用過去式的 occured, happend 或你那個 took 字了，但是故事的發生一般是人為做成的，如一個愛情故事，故事是由兩個人或多個人物組成，故事是不會自己發生的，因此便應該用 passive voice 了，所以你那第一句應該是:

The story WAS taken place in China．（taken place 也可攺為 occured 或happened，但在這些字之前都要加上 was).

至於第二句就應為:

The patients take the benefit of medical services in Hongkong.　因為都已生病了，怎可以說是享受？我們說享受/(用)醫療而用於英文，所以便如你所講的中式英語 (Chinglish).

2006-11-29 00:39:52 補充：
第一句的中式英語是:The story （這故事）took place (發生）in China （在中國）．但應該是我上述的那句，另一例句:The love story of 梁祝 was take place in China. 梁祝這愛情故事是發生在中國．

2006-11-29 19:37:09 補充：
BILLINGUECHINA, you said: I don 't know why the two sentences below have been regarded as Chinglish . Who gave you such comment, your teacher?

2006-11-29 21:06:19 補充：
更正: 若說故事發生, 不應說 took place, 因 took place 有舉行之意.It's raining outside so the graduation party was TAKEN PLACE in the school hall instead of in the garden.

2006-12-11 00:14:56 補充：
無論是真實還是假故事, 都是故事, 故者舊也, 已發生了，必然是過去．happened, occured 和 took place 是有些少分別，took place 可以是舉行，其他那兩個字就不可以替代took place. Medical care 是一個總稱，其中包括 Intensive Care, Speical Care 等，medical care 是一種福利，我們享用的是那褔利，所以應為enjoy the benefit of medical care. 我在這裡給與負面評價因為都沒指出那兩句是錯及用原句來攺正．

其實第一句很正常, 文法正確. 我有印象有卡通片曾用類似的形式引入主題, 大約是"This story takes place in a far away land..."(只屬個人虛構). 真的有問題嗎? 可能外國人比較喜歡"Once upon a time"?

第二句雖然文法正確, 但意思令人啼笑皆非. 難道病人會"享受"(enjoy)醫療服務嗎? 他們會因此而快樂嗎? 這句確實有問題. 應該用receive, are given, 等等.

第一句完全沒有問題. 建議用 occur/happen 等來代替 took place 只是提供了另外可用的字, 並非較 took place 更地道.
第二句語法有點問題, 不清楚是指「那些病人在香港境內享受醫療服務」還是「那些病人在享受香港的醫療服務」?? 若發問者能提供中文原文方可決定.

2006-11-29 12:37:24 補充：
第二句根本未去到要考究 enjoy 是否恰當, 是否漏了 article, 又或者 medical care 應否加 services/system 的問題. 單就這句用 simple present tense 已經唔係慣常的說法, 用 present continuous 還說得過去...

2006-11-29 18:38:10 補充：
anson_chau: (對事不對人)"was taken place" 正是 Chinglish. 這是個非常簡單, 不應犯的錯誤, 就如我剛評了你另一題話 "enjoy ourselves 是不對" 的一樣. 看來你極需要惡補你的英語, 否則儘管你回答問題的動機是如何的好, 也只會是「自欺欺人」. 況且亦浪費了你給人"解釋"的時間.

2006-11-29 18:41:50 補充：
應該是「誤人誤己」才是. 抱歉.

2006-11-29 22:42:23 補充：
anson_chau:我出聲的原因是 1) 原文沒有錯, 你卻反提出錯的「更正」, 這是誤導 2) 和 enjoy oneself 那題一樣, 你都舉了一大堆似是而非的「解釋」, 相信如沒有人提醒你, 你會繼續「誤人誤己」落去. 但明顯地你寧願「堅持」而不去「檢討」, 和你再討論下去也是沒有意思的. 你自求多福吧!

2006-11-30 14:06:33 補充：
Just because someone had used English in an unconventional way (to suit his own purposes) does not make it correct. Check out http://www.eslgold.com/grammar/simple_past.html and look under the section "Common problems with the past tense".

2006-11-30 14:11:05 補充：
Language irregularities do not apply here. "was forced to take place (in)" would be a correct alternative. Similarly, "took place" and "has/had taken place" are correct usages depending on context, but "was taken place" will never be correct.

2006-11-30 16:32:22 補充：
nukemichi, I wasn't criticizing u. Since u wrote "odd" I gathered that you assessed the sentence like a native speaker would by pronouncing it in your mind. That I did also, but I was speaking from an grammatical angle,

2006-11-30 16:33:51 補充：
and suffice it to say that ”was”＋”past participle” is wrong unless it is used in the passive voice, as in ”The plane took off” or ”the plane has taken off”, but ”the plane was taken off” is wrong while ”the flight was taken off the schedule” would be correct.

2006-11-30 16:36:15 補充：
And ”take place”, like ”happen” and ”occur”, are intransitive verbs so they can never be used in the passive voice. Should someone had wanted to use the passive voice, they would and should have used ”was held in”.

2006-12-01 12:51:43 補充：
樓下那位抽起我意見的一部份叫我「求證」? 你這是甚麼意思?happen 和 take place 完全沒必要是真實故事才適合用. 這不是意見, 是事實, 你可以求證一下.

2006-12-01 17:31:36 補充：
唉, 又漏了我意見的下半部... 我是說此句用 simple present tense 本身已經怪怪地, 因為用了 the 變成唔似係講緊 fact (the ”what” patients?), 就如 birds fly, fish swim 一般不會加 the 一樣. medical care 前加番 the 已經係 grammatically correct, 但意思則欠清晰. 所以大家用甚麼角度去考究它也是徒費心機! 最重要的是發問者能提供中文原文/原意!!!

2006-12-01 21:59:42 補充：
點解發問者咁耐都唔提供原文/原意呢? 沒有或不知道的話也可以講聲啊, 難得咁多人畀意見你!!

2006-12-03 15:49:24 補充：
多謝發問者的補充. 一些教學書籍是會有「矯枉過正」甚至錯誤的例子出現, 你不必盡信. 以第一句為例, 是完全沒有錯的, 你可以把 China 換作其他國家如 Germany 上網搜查一下便可知. 第二句則意思欠清晰, 在不清楚原意的情況下大家就此作罷吧!

那個故事發生在中國．
那些病人在香港享有醫療護理．

Well, the correct English should be
1. The story happened in China.
2. The patients received medical care in Hong Kong.

"Enjoy" and "Took place" corresponds to 享用 and 發生 in Chinese - hence it's regarded as Chinglish, though I personally think the original sentence 1 is just fine.

1, this story occurs in china.
2. patients enjoy hong kong medical services.