I'll consider it as being as likely as a rocket from Krypton delivering a super powered individual to Earth, wherupon that individual dons brightly coloured clothes, and flies around and saves people with his super powers.
The bible contains a great deal of disproved nonsense. These is no likelihood that anything from it will be shown to be anything other than more of the same.
When there was objective evidence of it. But that would remove it from the supernatural category. Nothing "supernatural" exists, by the very definition of the word. It literally means beyond reality. Beyond reality there is only pretense and conjecture.
Supernatural simply does not exist, period. Everything real had a rational explanation. Nothing that is real needs any faith at all.
Why must dishonest theists always put words in my mouth I didn't say? YOU may have said such a stupid thong, but I certainly did not. I swear, if christians couldn't lie on here, there would only be 3 christians left, and I can name all three. You Dave are not one of them.
It would take a lot. The odds are a lot higher that someone slipped me some acid or something.
Your eyes can be fooled into 'seeing' any number of things ('magicians' and 'illusionists' take advantage of this), so it would have to be something pretty impressive.
A severed limb being restored would probably do it (as long as I was able to inspect the person first). A dead person coming back to life (and not just someone who is 'clinically dead' - I'm talking a corpse).
If I actually saw the verifiable evidence with proof that I was not hallucinating and proof that it was not just an illusion caused by someone.
If something floated or moved on its own, I would be content with conceding at that point.. But I still wouldn't know what it was. could be a ghost, or djinn, or something still unknown.
How bout instead of "assuming a number" you actually listen to what we're saying? Might be the most productive.
Atheist at what "POINT" ( objectively speaking ) if any would you "CONSIDER" the "SUPERNATURAL" happening right in front of your "own eyes" what is one calling "SEEING"
examining the question the SUBJECT of the question is at what "POINT" implying wha
t are your STANDARDS your MEANS of determining X to be the case .....beginning with and the use of a dictionary ( very simple tool ) the word "GOD" is as AMBIGUOUS as the word SUPERNATURAL
, actually its in the catagory of SUPERNATURAL .
.... SUPERNATURAL adjective a concept ( proposition/ proposal ) of and assertion of an order of EXISTENCE beyond the VISIBLE OBSERVABLE UNIVERSE ,especially of or relating to "God" or a god ,demigod spirit or devil
DEPARTING from that which is USUAL or NORMAL especially as to "APPEAR" to transcend the laws of NATURE ..
..an . EVENT X occurs ... which is very different from BOB SAID X which is what ones PROPHACY and prediction scenario is ...and the math presentation was a DISTRACTION ...
.. using a simple one LIGHTENING was once viewed as the WRATH of GOD the word God is ambiguous its a label people slapped on as a CAUSE or EXPLANATION . due to LACK of investigation ..
. then BEN FRANKLIN does his KITE experiment in 1752 PRINTS his results describes his experiment which could then be REPLICATED and will have the same RESULTS consistently .....BEN CONCLUDED LIGHTENING was a form of ELECTRICITY .
...People used to wear a lot of WOOL people were aware of " STATIC ELECTRICITY " ( i bet the SHEEP HERDERS ( wool ) also knew about STATIC ELECTRICITY when they wrote the story about the BOX plated with gold that they covered with a wool blanket ) they just decided to call it "GOD" or "SPECIAL POWERS " ..
... I can also PREDICT the exact DAY and TIME of my DEATH and also CAUSE it to HAPPEN ...
.. Just like some claim the BIBLE predicts the NATION of ISRAEL ...
. actually that was a result of a sequence of ACTUAL EVENTS of ACTUAL PEOPLE working and negotiating and Wars toward that Goal .
... odd thing about BIBLE PROPHACY and Nostradamus its so VAGUE lacks specificity , never does a person write in say 1300 BC that on January 20th 2017 TRUMP will be president of the USA ...
to begin with there was most likely no word january and there was no USA or a Donald Trump and actually there is NO evidence to date of a HEBREW writing system or alphabet PRIOR to 1000 BC so a 100 GUESSES would CONVINCE you of something BEYOND NATURAL ... is GUESSING NATURAL do people do it on a frequent basis ....
can I GUESS my sisters WEIGHT can a so called "PSYCHIC " tell people a prediction by doing a "COLD READING " I am getting the letter J do you know someone whose name begins with J ...
. just throwing this one out a test pronounce "ZEE" now pronounce "US" now say it together ZEE + US .... what does ZEUS spell the Greek God equal to the Roman god JUPITER .
... odd thing how the STORY says you SHALL call him EMMANUEL .... but gets the name JEE ....SUS
Hebrew no J and J is an invention of the 17th century but the Greeks and Romans had a "Z" the same people who PAUL /SAUL TARGETS in his letters who had a concept the GODS IMPREGNATED HUMANS .. so the Concept was not Foreign to them
actually had the concept as part of their religion... maybe the early jews / Christians " adopted it from Greek and Roman MYTHOLOGY after Alexander the great ( Greek ) invades the region in 325 BC and has influence for 300 years
I'm sorry but with all the your updates there was far too much to read. I'm just answering your original question and the first few updates as I understand them.
Anyone predicting the result of a two possible outcomes event has at least a 50% chance of being correct. Being able to do this once or twice wouldn't surprise me at all. Being able to do it more that this would be surprising but still possible. Obviously, if a person were able to do it maybe twenty times running then I'd be inclined to accept that it wasn't mere chance.
However, this is the sort of thing that illusionists and "magicians" do all the time and in some cases, with a pack of cards, they seem to be able to predict, every time, the result of something with 52 possible outcomes.
There is a huge difference between something happening that I cannot explain; cannot "see how it's done", and "the supernatural". If a person was able to make maybe a couple of hundred correct "guesses" in a row then I would certainly accept that something was happening that was beyond my understanding but I'd want other people involved, tests to be done, for the person to repeat this "trick" in other places with a different audience, over and over again before I would even consider something "supernatural".
This is accademic though because I have never encountered anything like you describe. I've seen and been impressed by "magicians" and I've heard of people who seemed able to do the sort of thing you describe more often than would be statistically expected, but that's all. I really can't identify "a point" at which I would concede that something "supernatural" was happening because nothing remotely "supernatural" has ever happened to be. Also, in the example you give, so far as I know, there is no evidence at all than anyone is able to do something like you suggest in "test conditions". It's like asking at what point I'd be willing to accept that fairies existed. I can't snswer because, so far as I'm concerned, fairies DON'T exist, there is no evidence to support their existence and no one that I know of suggests that they exist. At what "point" would YOU be willing to accept that a person can turn base metals into gold?
I can't see why this question is directed at atheists. Are you suggesting that religious people are more gullible, more easily taken in?
Added, looking at some of your updates and comments, you keep asking for "a number". You need to read the answers you have again and try to grasp that it's WHAT happened that is important, not the number of times it happened. I imagine that a magician or illusionist can, for example, "find the card that a member of the audience chose" 100% of the time, as many times as they are asked to do it before they ever try their trick in public. That's not "supernatural" though. A few centuries ago being able to see what was happening on the other side of the world would have been "supernatural". Nowadays, however many times we see it (on TV, the Internet etc,) it's not.
Again though, what has this to do with atheists?
Added, I took your question to be genuine albeit badly thought out and expressed. I wrote a long and carefully thought out answer but thats nothing to the length of your "contribution". Wow, you really ARE disturbed!
At the point of me going insane & ready to be put away.
I won't give you a number either. What are you going to do about it? Some things you could do:
Define "supernatural"
Describe a method to distinguish supernatural processes from unknown natural processes
Complain about it.
My bet is you'll complain, you seem like the type.
I don't know if atheists realized this. but every single time they read one of my posts there seeing the supernatural right in front of their very eyes.
You ask how is this so? I was an atheist for some 27 years of my life. Their lifestyle killed me quite literally.i died of a crack cocaine overdose 30 years ago. I was without heartbeat or respiration and my lungs were flooded with a massive quantity of crack cocaine smoke. The doctors had already tagged me and we're ready to put me into the freezer. Well I came back about 24 minutes later. I got up off of that stainless steel table. I got dressed and I told the doctors the story of my little trip to hell and then to heaven to be the first person to come back from the dead and have it be documented! That Supernatural buddy I'm a Christian because I saw the evidence in person.
Want proof that God is real? Read my story verify it for yourself I made it public anybody that wants to get a copy of the records can do so.
Basically, nobody thinks your test is a good way of judging the supernatural.
If it were something very well controlled, such as the lottery, that might be a different matter. I think if somebody one the lottery on all 6 numbers twice in a row, I would accept that. At least, I would accept it as evidence that they could somehow predict the future. Even then, whether that prediction was by supernatural means, or some natural means that we were not aware of, is still open to question.
You seem to be trying to present the case as if it were a dichotomy between believing in incredible odds or the supernatural, but we cannot rule out the possibility of an unknown natural cause. Past cases have shown us that phenomena that people put down to the supernatural often have a natural cause that they did not know about.
Edit:
" Even if their dead grandmother came back to life, they would just assume that either she was never dead to begin with, or some pharmaceutical company came up with a new drug that is able to bring people that appear to be dead back to looking alive again."
Wow! Talk about moving the goal posts. That scenario is nothing like the one you insist upon us providing an number for. I think if my grandmother came back to life, I would accept that as proof of the supernatural.
Correct guesses on a coin toss are not sufficient evidence of anything supernatural. How does one recognize the supernatural? How can you distinguish between the supernatural and advanced technology. Five hundred years ago iphones (if seen) would be considered supernatural. So far, supernatural events have been proven a hoax or occurred by natural means.
There are many things to rule out when it comes to the supernatural. Mental illness, hallucinations, drug use, hoaxes. Humans evolved to see patterns. We see patterns often where there are no patterns. This explains the development of gods and supernatural thinking. We often infer relationships between things when none exist. (For example a coin reading heads ten times in a row must be a pattern, when in fact it's not). Humans also don't see everything (literally). So we miss important details that may explain so called supernatura events. The fact remains that the supernatural doesn't happen. Everything has a natural explaination.
Define 'supernatural'...
I dont believe in peter pan, Frankenstein or superman...
Without exceptions...
I believe in science not the supernatural. So answer your question there is no point that would happen.
Also I don’t guess.
Consider it in what way?
Believe it?
I have no idea.
But just because I saw something happening which I couldn't explain or understand, I wouldn't presume it was caused by a deity.
EDIT:
None of your extra info would make me think any god was involved. And even if you could convince me that a god existed, I certainly wouldn't worship or adore or obey it.
Nope, that wouldn't do it for me.
I need for one of my long-dead loved ones to be resurrected -- permanently.
I know a magician who could manipulate the coin-toss thing easily. He's brilliant at that sort of thing.
As you can see, people around here are not in the habit of reading the entire question before they answer, particularly if the question is a bit long.
They're lazy like that.
IT HAPPENS WHEN HONEYBEES MAKE HONEY...IT ALSO HAPPENS WHEN COUPLES MAKE LOVE AND MAKE BABIES..AND GOD HAS SAVED MILLIONS OF PEOPLE!!
Sorry but in my opinion God is way beyond supernatural.I'm not an Atheist,I'm a man of faith.
Atheist because of their sin nature will refuse to believe in God regardless because of a bias presupposition, the Bible tells us that people will reject the clear and undeniable knowledge of God and believe a lie instead. Romans 1:25 declares, “They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.” The Bible also proclaims that people are without excuse for not believing in God: “For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—His eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse” (Romans 1:20).
People claim to reject God’s existence because it is “not scientific” or “because there is no proof.” The true reason is that once they admit that there is a God, they also must realize that they are responsible to God and in need of forgiveness from Him (Romans 3:23, 6:23). If God exists, then we are accountable to Him for our actions. If God does not exist, then we can do whatever we want without having to worry about God judging us. That is why many of those who deny the existence of God cling strongly to the theory of naturalistic evolution—it gives them an alternative to believing in a Creator God. God exists and ultimately everyone knows that He exists. The very fact that some attempt so aggressively to disprove His existence is in fact an argument for His existence.
How do we know God exists? As Christians, we know God exists because we speak to Him every day. We do not audibly hear Him speaking to us, but we sense His presence, we feel His leading, we know His love, we desire His grace. Things have occurred in our lives that have no possible explanation other than God. God has so miraculously saved us and changed our lives that we cannot help but acknowledge and praise His existence. None of these arguments can persuade anyone who refuses to acknowledge what is already obvious. In the end, God’s existence must be accepted by faith (Hebrews 11:6). Faith in God is not a blind leap into the dark; it is safe step into a well-lit room where the vast majority of people are already standing.
I would consider it at any point. For instance if jesus came to earth and started murdering people. I would understand what was going on.... If bushes talked as they do in the bible. I am 100% open to supernatural
No idea. I have never seen or heard or even imagined something supernatural.
Uhm....if there was something happening in front of my eyes that I was unable to understand the cause of, I would be gathering information for further study.
I guess I don't understand your question.
Supernatural does not a god validate now does it.
But they have the education and intelligence to know the truth and live in reality but if you want to waste your life fantasising go ahead!
I'm not an atheist, and I would have trouble believing something "supernatural" before my eyes.
I've seen or felt, and been told about thousands of supernatural kinds of things,
had gurus, self help , and magic shows that blew my mind,
tripped on DMT and left my body to drift amongst the unseen spirits in everything and everywhere;
and I still say supernatural is bull crap.
Edit:
"Please read the question again; I'm looking for a number."
David at Your Service · 3 mins ago
We get it, you're looking for a number.
Ok, the more times it comes up heads, the more I think it's a trick.
At a couple dozen I walk away because I've seen this trick before.
Even if I can't figure it out, it's a trick.
Want me to believe, pull a Rolls Royce out of your butt;
I still won't believe, but I'll drive away in a sweet car instead of walking,,,
assuming it didn't smell like butt.
There is no such thing as "supernatural". All phenomena can be explained although at any given time humans may not know what the explanation of a specific phenomenon is.
ll
Well...I doubt they would blink at 1 chance in 10^80 since they already reject 1 in 10^123 which is the chance that life could exist in our universe without some sort of divine intervention according to the Strong Anthropic Principle.
