The problem with Infinite Past. Cosmology and the Big Bang?

2016-08-10 3:22 pm
Question/discussion about infinite past
this is what I understand, please correct me if I am wrong.
1.) the big bang theory is a plausible theory for the universe where the evidence is accepted by the majority of scientists in this world today.

the theory concludes that space, time and all matter/energy in our universe originated from a single event. The event being the rapid expansion of energy, space etc, Even the physical laws and constants appeared.

2.) current scientists cannot provide a good theory of what happened before or exackly at the big bang. this is partly due to not knowing quantum laws.

if I was to give numeric value to the events leading up to big bang.
event 0: we are chatting
event 1: earth formed
event 2: solar system formed
event 3: galaxy formed
...
...
event: (random large number say 1000000) big bang expansion

event 1000001: multi verse, cyclic universe or other currently unprovable theory.

we would eventually reach EVENT INFINITY

but if the events were infinite, then we would never reach event 0 or event 1.
this is because infinity never finishes and the events are dependent on each other.

conclusion; infinite past is impossible.
the universe had to have a beginning.

Finally I want to add that I also believe, it is impossible to visualise/imagine "nothing". Nothing is a inconceivable phenomenon for the human brain.
It may be possible to say nothing in word form, but we cannot imagine such a state.

回答 (11)

2016-08-11 3:39 pm
✔ 最佳答案
Well, ..., on point #1 you right on it. So no problems there.

Point #2 is where everyone gets tripped up. There cannot be an infinity before, during, or after big bang. Like it or not the universe began with a finite amount of energy, mass, and time. It does not create new mass, energy, or time. As a result, the universe is running out of energy and therefor time. This means the universe is finite.

Think of it this way, let's say that on my mark you start writing all of the the whole numbers from 0 to Infinity 1 by 1 until I say stop. Mark represents the beginning of the universe and stop represents the moment you were born. All of the number's in-between represent the set of causal events leading up to the moment of your birth. No matter how many numbers you wrote down at the end of it all you have a finite set of numbers. This is the exactly why the universe can not be infinite. At the moment anyone is born we can trace the line of causal events from the end point to the beginning point and arrive at a finite set of events. Thus, the universe is finite.

Now that we've established that the Universe is finite and bracketed by both a beginning and an end, We also know. that anything that begins to exist must have a cause; Since we know that the universe began to exist thus the universe also has a cause.

Essentially this means that there is an uncaused cause that is responsible for big bang. The question now becomes who or what started it all? was it conscious or unconscious? If it was unconscious then a) Consciousness is not part of this realm (Causal event chainn) could not of come from it and b) it is powerless to prevent it's own demise. If it is conscious then a) our own consciousness makes perfect sense and is not part of this realm (causal event chain), b) that consciousness controls it's own destiny.
2016-08-10 3:44 pm
That is ok down to your point 2
The rest misses the point.
The big bang assumes that time and space started with the expansion of energy - which we think occurred 13.8 billion years ago.

If you think of one event per billion years there would be 15 (or 14.8) by now.
So what ??
One event per year would be 13,800,000,000 by now.
A trillion events per year would give 13,800,000,000,000,000,000,000 events.

There would never be an infinite number of events in a finite amount of time.
2016-08-12 10:21 am
The human brain is incapable of perceiving quantities of things beyond seven. That being said, how do you expect that same brain to perceive infinity?? Can't do it! Sure, we use the concept of infinity so cavalierly in math; quantities beyond seven, too. But there doesn't have to be a beginning or an ending just because the physical world we know of is always finite. It just doesn't have to be!
2016-08-10 5:24 pm
"The problem with Infinite Past. Cosmology and the Big Bang?"

Infinite past, and infinite size are obviated by Big Bang theory.

"the big bang theory is..." "... accepted by the majority of scientists in this world today." After they challenged it, they accepted it, and tried to extend it.

"the theory concludes that space, time and all matter/energy in our universe originated from a single event."

There are variants, where the total energy "pre-existed", and other variants where everything infell into this Universe.

"2.) current scientists cannot provide a good theory of what happened before or exackly at the big bang. this is partly due to not knowing quantum laws."

There is no *consensus*, yet "all" of them waste some time and effort in supposing what came "before". It isn't just a limitation of have having quantum gravity, but the fact that we are extrapolating into a solution space when the optically-opaque medium that produced the CMBR radiation, absorbed and scattered all light.

"but if the events were infinite, then we would never reach event 0 or event 1."

The methods of infinite sums, can still produce a finite result. Besides you are conflating other cosmologies with Big Bang theory.

"this is because infinity never finishes and the events are dependent on each other."

False in fact.

"Finally I want to add that I also believe..."

It cannot matter, since this is not a blog, where you get to state or defend your position. This is a Q&A site. If you want your personal beliefs attacked on any sort of Science, please start a *question* with that as a topic.
2016-08-10 3:51 pm
The term "past" reference to time, which is not constant. I would argue that maybe big bang is outdated for modern concepts. But it is such a cute model that no one wants to disprove it.
2016-08-10 3:31 pm
The universe did have a beginning, at the big bang event. No one ever said otherwise. The rest of your theorising is cuckoo.
2016-08-10 9:11 pm
So, why is the Creation Theory NOT acceptable. There are only about 250,000 scientist in the world, MOST (but not all) accept the Big Bang.

But there are almost 3,000,000,000 Christians in the world who accept the Creation Theory.

Since you seem to be impressed by shear numbers, why is a theory accepted by 3 BILLION people not MORE LIKELY than one accepted by only 1/4 million people?
2016-08-10 7:00 pm
I could offer you my own ideas about that, which make a lot of sense. Those are just ideas and lots of people have them. The problem you are having is the same problem lots of people have - science deals with facts, science does not speculate. We don't know what was before the big bang or even exactly what the thing WAS. Science is finished at that point. We don't know, period. Now, to be sure, lots of people want to speculate, and that is a very human thing to want to do.
2016-08-10 6:02 pm
Another of the unsung geniuses of Yahoo Answers. If they cannot understand something, it doesn't exist. Tune in next week for the answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything.
2016-08-10 4:09 pm
1.)
- The big bang is more just a plausible model that describes what happened than full theory
- this model is accepted by the majority of scientists in this world today.
- the observations ( not the theory ) conclude that space, time and all matter/energy in our universe originated from a singularity. The theory/model describes the series of event after Planck era when the physical laws and constants appeared.

2.)
- current scientists cannot provide a good theory of what happened during Planck era (roughly the first 10 ^-41s after the singularity).
- event 1000001: multi verse, cyclic universe or other currently etc. unprovable hypothesis nowadays. Actually our science cannot define time beyond Planck era and so not even the word "before"

conclusion;
- infinite past is impossible.
Yes
- the universe had to have a beginning.
And Yes
Both for the simple reason night sky is mostly dark with some stars. The sky in an infinite universe (infinite in space and time) would be completely bright (Olber's paradox)

- "Nothing" is an inconceivable phenomenon for the human brain.
no, i'm sure you can figure it out.
Just unreachable to our equations doesn't necessarily mean "nothing".
.


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