For Atheist Only How would you reply this ?

Not sure how anyone could come to that exact conclusion since no verses in the bible go over this particular scenario. This is what a lot of Christians do, they just make up random stuff to try and make the bible make sense. It doesn't matter if it's in the bible or not. I just roll my eyes so to speak when this is done. It's done a lot.

It's kind of like watching 2 people argue over who would in a fight together, superman or the hulk. It's kind of pointless to get involved.

Apparently angels have free will as well, despite the fact that this god is, by their own definition, omnipotent. He knew lucifer would turn. He knew what it would take to keep him loyal, and didn't do it. He knew what it would take to keep adam and eve from eating the fruit, but never bothered preventing it.

When you claim your deity is all-knowing, and all powerful, free will becomes meaningless, because no matter what you choose, this god already knows the end result of that choice. If he wants people to act a certain way, he knows Exactly what he needs to do to alter their course. The fact that he doesn't implies a serious amount of laziness, or nonexistence.

I don't reply to fiction.

There is no satan or lucifer or devil.



WHY DO CHRISTIANS AND MUSLIMS BELIEVE IN THE CONCEPT OF SATAN WHEN IT COMES FROM ZOROASTRIANISM?
Jews don’t believe in Satan as evil - Satan is primarily understood as an "accuser" in the Hebrew Bible. And Jesus was a Jew – so he would never have spoken of Satan as evil.


“ In 538 BC the Jews returned from exile to their homeland, now under the rule of the Persians. The Hebrews were heavily influenced by the Persian beliefs, in particular Zoroastrianism, and it is at this time that we see a shift in their beliefs.

Specifically, the adoption of the Persian view of Satan.

The Zoroastrian God, Ahura Mazda, was opposed by the evil entity Angra Mainyu, the Destructive Element. Angra Mainyu (also known as Ahriman) became the ultimate embodiment of evil. He was constantly attempting to destroy the world of truth and to harm men and beasts. In chapter 100 of Book of the Arda Viraf, titled ‘Ahriman’, the narrator saw Angra Mainyu, the “Evil spirit, … whose religion is evil [and] who ever ridiculed and mocked the wicked in hell.” Angra Mainyu lived in a world of darkness with the demons (daevas) as their ruler or leader (Vendidad 19.1, 43-44).

Most noteworthy is Angra Mainyu’s ability to change his appearance to that of a lizard, a snake or an innocent looking youth. So disguised, he wages his war against Ahura Mazda as he attempts to destroy all that is good and to lure man into the world of darkness and destruction.

For Zoroastrians, the mortal world was a reflection of the cosmic struggle between these two divine entities: The Supreme God Ahura Mazda and his arch-nemesis, Angra Mainyu. Man was charged with choosing between these two principles, good and evil.

Ultimately, at the end of the world a Savior (Saoshyant – also known as “the shepherd to the poor”) will come, and he will defeat Angra Mainyu. All mankind, wicked and righteous alike, would be resurrected to an immortal body, and the final judgment would come wherein all would be held accountable for their choices. The world would be cleansed and changed by fire and molten rock and the righteous would reside in Light and Truth while the wicked would be purged through fire until they were washed clean of their wickedness. Angra Mainyu and his minions would ultimately be destroyed.

It should be no surprise that during the post-exilic period we find that the Hebrew’s view of God changed from a jealous, vengeful God who was the source of both good and evil, to a God of love and righteousness (Ahura Mazda), and that an evil figure responsible for sin and suffering, such as Angra Mainyu, would then emerge.

And so the Hebrew ha-satan, the Accuser, evolved into Satan, the Devil.

A number of apocryphal texts that emerged between the first century BC and the first century AD relate the oral tradition that had sprung up regarding the evil figure of Satan. These texts describe Satan as a fallen angel who was cast out of heaven because of his pride, refusing to be subservient to Adam. Because of his fall from grace he sought to first destroy Adam and then mankind in general.

Through these accounts we see that by the Inter-testamental period Satan, the fallen angel, had become the serpent in the Genesis story (Genesis never states that the serpent was the Devil or Satan, the serpent is simply a serpent.) However, the apocryphal text, The Life of Adam and Eve claims that Satan possessed the serpent.

“Then he [Satan] went and summoned the serpent and said to him, ‘Arise, come to me so that I may enter into you and speak through your mouth as much as I will need say’. At that time the serpent became a lyre for him…” (The Life of Adam and Eve 17.2). Additionally, the apocryphal Book of Wisdom declared, “But by the envy of the devil, death entered the world, and they who are in his possession experience it” (Book of Wisdom 2:24).

And so we see a new dualistic depiction of Satan emerge. He was prideful and cast out of heaven to become a demon. He was pure evil and led the fallen angels in a war against God, trying to destroy mankind through deceit. He brought death to the world and became synonymous with the serpent of Genesis. He has the power to possess animals and mankind. He can appear as an angel, a man or a serpent.

In essence, Judaism’s ha-satan (literally “the accuser”) acquired the characteristics of Angra Mainyu.

During the Inter-testamental period Satan went by numerous names. He was Mastemah (Enmity) in the Book of Jubilees, Belial in the Testament of the Twelve Patriarchs, and the Angel of Darkness in the Dead Sea Scrolls. But it is in the New Testament that he received his most lasting names. He is the Devil (Matthew 4:1-11), Satan (Luke 22:3, 31), the Wicked One (Matthew 13:19; Mark 4:15), the Father of Lies (John 8:44), the author of all evil (Luke 10:19), the Lord of Death (Hebrews 2:14), the Great Dragon (Revelation 12:9), and the Ruler of Demons (Matthew 9:34).

In contrast to the Old Testament the belief that God was the source of good and evil as well as suffering changed. In the New Testament it was Satan who caused pain and affliction (Luke 13:16), not as a result of man’s moral failings and sin as was believed anciently, but precisely because man was righteous Satan sought to harm him and make him suffer.

The New Testament also echoed Old Testament and Apocryphal traditions. Using terminology very similar to Isaiah, Jesus was said to have beheld Satan fall as lightning from heaven because of his rebellion against God (Luke 18:10). The book of Revelation paraphrases the Apocryphal accounts of Satan’s fall: “And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him” (Revelation 12:9).

And in Jude we have a reference to the fall of the angels in unmistakable Zoroastrian terminology referring to their dwelling as Darkness and the great Day of Judgment. “And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day “(Jude 1:6).

But the evolution of Satan did not end with the writings of the New Testament. Over the next millennia Satan continued to acquire familiar folkloric attributes and characteristics as Christians incorporated various pagan beliefs and demonized pagan gods. These depictions, derived from numerous ancient sources and legends, bled into Satanic lore from other cultures.”

http://mythsofchristianity.com/god-and-the-devil/the-persian-satan/

I don't bother to argue over stories of non existent characters

*I may poke it with a stick but I certainly don't argue*

Whether Free Will, being God's creation, is under God or by its own, is a question out of our range... That is what makes it captivating.

Your example is the same one as the Adam, Eve and Fruit story, except that if you lean more on the Sumerian version, they were tricked into it by God...

Mythology stands between the Absolute Truth and our Imagination of it, cosmology differing from religion to religion.

Perhaps comparing Christian mythology to its roots - Sumerian mythology and Zoroastrianism, and of course to the root of all Indo-European roots; Hinduism... could bring in some new thought...

Personally speaking, I don't believe it.

atheists dont believe in gods or angels, there no point asking them.

Fùck your God and your lies and logic fallacies

Fùcķ you

i'm sorry what was your question

but that does not mean he caused Lucifer to turn on him.

- Yes it does, because ALL fundies say that nothing happens without god's will, except where inconvenient of course.

gobshite

Lucifer in not some demon to be hated. he is the bright and morning star we say Venus so in all a great entity.

That is your fairy tale, it doesn't apply to me.

Check it out

https://m.facebook.com/See-the-truth-1360742170618451/?ref=bookmarks

Does "Everything Go According to Gods Will?"
-->If the answer is Yes, then "Lucifer still made the choices he made of his own will" is also Gods will.
-->If the answer is No, then ask "Is God omnipotent?"
---->If the answer is Yes, then God is all powerful yet let's things go against his Will. That is called incompetence.

I think that should shut them up. He'll probably just go with something like "You wouldn't understand how he works" to which my response would be "You clearly don't either, so stop pretending like you do just because some book says so." If he claims he does, then demand that he provide an answer.

I wish to weigh in here, because as others said, atheists believe in 'no gods'.

An analogy please: if you are a parent, or know of a parent, THEY see what
their kids do not see.

Their daughter, for example, thinks this older 'guy' at school is just so cool.
He has convinced her he really cares for her.

She brings him over, and he even has the audacity to 'wink' at you
knowing you know, and she is won over to him.

So, you really think telling her works, huh? Want to lose your daughter?
Tell her. Tell her what you 'know'.

You know that ....not only does he just want her sexually, and will
hurt her, he might REALLY hurt her, because you have seen these
kinds,.....and SHE HAS NOT. You also know he's a drug user,
and will get her hooked, because he ....wants to.

So, what do you do, huh?

What you DON'T DO is tell her, I guarantee you do not do that if you
want to know ANYTHING your daughter is doing.

So, now, in the heavens, you think it's just GOD up there? Just
God alone, no other creatures? No other creatures who KNEW LUCIFER
and maybe LIKED him.

Aren't these ones extremely likeable? Isn't that their CHARM?
So, yes, God knew, and His love for His creatures meant it had
to play out.

have you ever asked yourself how any human would know anything about what was happening in heaven even if it did exist

Then, subtract the number you thought of first.

L.D.

God is still real