What is wrong with this?

Was it some sort of blue belt instructor that shouldn't be teaching?

This is an example of an instructor that shouldn't be an instructor. As the instructor you should be well versed enough not to cause harm or injure. You can cause some pain, but whould know not to go to far. Some students may not want to tap even if that is the case the instructor should not make it snap. Yes we all have the saying tap or snap. But that is for everyone else. Instructors know enough not to cause an injury. That makes this even worse. The student was trying to tap, but the instructor was applying too much pressure if it snapped. I hope other thik twice about training with that person and choose not to train there.

It is called a lack of control!

Edit:

With all due respect to Callsignfuzzy. I do not believe the term master was meaning having the title Master in BJJ. Accidents happen all of the time not matter what you are studying. I doubt if this was done on purpose. It could have been, but IMO it is doubtful. But since this was done by an instructor this is what make it more unacceptable. Instructors are held to a higher standard. An instructor is expected to have more control. It is irrelevant whether or not the student tapped or was about to tap. The student could have been in the process of tapping and not given the time to tap because of lack of control. As an instructor even when I'm not applying a joint lock and my students are applying them on each other. I have student that do not want to tap. They want to see how long they can go or how much they can take. Some might even like to show how macho they are. I will stop it and have them release the joint lock. Safety should be part of every school. This goes beyond an accident according to the information given. The only other explanation would be some type of physical condition. Again given what we have been told that was unlikely.

Sounds to me like the so called BJJ master has an attitude or anger problem. Unless the student has some freak bone condition that would make his bones unusually brittle, there is just no excuse for him breaking a students arm. I must assume that the student has no such bone problem since you stated that he was your student. Obviously, if there was a health problem you would be aware of it. It is stories about incidents like this that makes martial artists and martial arts instructors look bad. I hope the so called master is prosecuted for what he has done. At the very least he should not be allowed to do this to anyone else.



********* Edit:

Having re-read all the answers here at this time, I have a few additional comments. First, I have known Sifu Frank for some time. We have even had a few direct emails between us in the past. He has not been very active in this forum for some time, but was a regular here for a long time. I respect him and do not in any way believe that the story is untrue in any way. When I first saw the question, I suspected that Sifu Frank might have mistakenly called the BJJ instructor a master. I do not see this as a traditional Vs. modern MMA/BJJ issue. It is simply about an instructor breaking a students arm, under circumstances that seem to indicate that the instructor is at fault, not the student or his health condition before the incident.
Having done grappling for many years I can say this for sure. Anyone that grapples and yet causes an injury like this is almost assuredly either causing the injury intentionally, or has very bad awareness about what he does. Anyone that has a reasonable amount of grappling experience knows instinctively just how far he can take a technique without crossing the line into injury. If he does not have that awareness or chooses to go beyond it, he has not business teaching anyone. He shows a lack or respect for others and deserves no respect or admiration for his actions.


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I got here late, and you have good answers here.
I will only add that no instructor should be breaking students period.
Especially breaking them while grappling.
One might expect a new student to do something like that if the instructor's attention was distracted, but never should an instructor break a student when it is so easy to be safe.
I suggest to leave that place behind, and do not look back.
That instructor needs instruction first.

Edit" Also, as pugpaws2 stated, Frank is a well respected member here, long time contributor of good information. His honesty is not in question in my mind.

Some people should not be teaching and that person sounds like one of them,
There is no reason for the instructor to break a students arm even in full contact. The instructor should have known better.
I don't think he was sparring with the student.

Sifu Was he being used to demonstrate the technique?

Edit
Call sign I'm suggesting it was done though an inexperience instructor. Not because of hatred of a style

This sounds like a freak type accident or a combination of someone not knowing what they are doing and maybe being just a little to aggressive and I am not referring to the student either. First of all there are many ways of signalling that you wish to submit or tap and this should be taught to all students and the ideals behind this respected. A student can signal submission by hitting the mat with either of his legs or feet. This is done when a person is caught in a lock or submission and can't move either of his arms and hands to signal he is tapping and submitting. Also verbal submissions are another means for a student signalling that they wish to submit and also need to be acknowledged when someone cries out that they submit or cries out in obvious pain. The fact that none of these things are mentioned or were employed makes me wonder about things here and the quality of training and what students are being taught. In good schools where the training is of high quality and a serious level all these ways of signalling that you are submitting are usually employed because they at times have to be to help prevent serious injury and maybe accidents like the above from occurring.

The other thing about this situation is the instructor himself and I have mentioned the concept of "touch" before in this forum. Touch refers to a person's ability to adequately judge how hard they should punch, strike, or kick someone so as to not cause serious injury during training. It also refers to how vigorously a person should apply something like a lock or submission and the ability to judge that so as to not cause serious injury to others during training. Most people who train at a high level employ it with one another so as to not hurt one another needlessly like has happened here. Occasionally you will encounter those who don't have much ability in the way of touch or even worse don't care about that or if they actually hurt someone. I have to wonder if this instructor is such a person and very well might be especially if he has hurt other students.

What might be even worse is if this instructor did this just to prove a point of some kind and that your student's training had been inferior or substandard in some way. This idea of one upmanship and injuring others is wrong for a number of different reasons and indicates a person who has no respect for others. They can pose a threat to others that train with and under them as well as are bad for the martial arts in general. People like this who have some knowledge, skill, and ability but yet don't exercise the proper approach with it and training others often hurt their students and training partners which is why I never tolerated this approach in my schools or programs or among students and fighters that I taught or trained.

Sounds to me the teacher is in no position to be teaching. Control is an essential part of the martial arts, especially an authority figure like an instructor. Playing with joint manipulation is a lot like playing with fire; it can be either good or bad depending on the user, and not for the immature.

I don't believe such accidents are really accidents. Many BJJ schools get filled with insecure fratboys with ego complexes, and the place becomes over competitive. It's no doubt that this teacher broke the student's arm intentionally to stroke his own ego. Thus the MMA mentality goes; nothing but whiny, immature morons with large egos and tiny penises trying to assert dominance as a way over overcompensation for their latent homosexual tendencies.

Ive jumped in late on this one too, good answer's already given, just like too add this member was one of the main contributors years ago when answer's started out, and one of my 1st contact's , the guy is not a bull$hit artist and doesn't lack understanding in MA and speaks honestly.

Honestly i cant see this happening and if it did then this person should not be instructing. One of the morals of grappling especially in training that if your opponent does not tap and you think you have the lock then you should relinquish the hold. it is a fail safe and i have NEVER in all my years seen a purple belt or above not use this rule.

Now considering that only a purple belt and up should be instructing or assisting people then i highly doubt that is exactly what happened. BUT lets say that it did because there are still obviously jerks in this world, then i would be finding which academy that instructor represents and taking the matter further with them. They will NOT tolerate it as it is a bad image for any martial art.

Also it sounds like the student was very very inexperienced or this story still lacks some element of truth because even if he couldnt tap with his hands, he could have used his voice to signal to stop or he could have tapped with his feet. I have NEVER seen someone unable to tap.

P.S - I am not saying that you are lying, i am just saying that perhaps you have only heard one side of the story and if you have concerns and you are a qualified instructor of any style then i would speak to the other academies head instructor with your concerns. Most head instructors even crossing over styles have a healthy respect fro other head instructors and your issues will be heard.
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EDIT: @Sifu - I dont know who here is questioning your truthfulness because it certainly was not me, i was simply asking whether you had all the facts that were needed to determine exactly what happened. You are absolutely 100% right, that under absolutely no circumstance should an instructor injure a student. like i said any person with enough training knows that if you have the lock and they are not going to tap just to let it go.

If this guy is the academy owner then i would find out which academy he is representing and i would immediately contact them.

One thing i truly hate about MMA is that it means so many of the college meatheads come and train for a year and think they are the worlds best fighter and have nothing but arrogance issues and therefore dont learn the meaning of what martial arts is all about. i too have found myself losing my cool at these people so surely other instructors have had enough and maybe your student wore the brunt of some thug instructor.. Unfortunately this has to somewhere along the line bring out the anger and attitude problems of some instructors and has to lead to poor decision making. While i think MMA is great that it showed all styles they needed to work on other areas of their game, now it has turned into meatheads ruining martial arts. sure there are some guys that dont do this but far too many do.

BTW there is no way this guy is a master in BJJ and it sounds like this guy suffers from an inflated ego as well.

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EDIT: @ JKD disciple - A BJ Blue belt is allowed to instruct a class but the class must only be children. other than that he/she must be assisting the Professor/Instructor running the class. Rarely this will happen as a Professor will pick the next highest qualified person and a BJJ blue belt while still accomplished normally has people above him in the class.

Yes when you get your certificates it will be signed by 2-3 people (depending on which academy it was awarded in) and atleast one will be a Gracie If it is a blackbelt and above it will be signed by atleast 5 Professors/ master or grandmaster.

I am assuming the guy who is running this academy is certainly no Black belt,

I'll be the devils advocate. In most cases everyone is right the instructor shouldn't need a tap out to know they needed to let up. But things aren't always as they seem.

The student could have moved in a way that caused the arm to break.

Or the student could have injured it before and it finally gave.

Or the student could have had brittle bones (lack of calcium and high soda consumption??)

The point I'm making is that without being there we don't know for sure what happened. And even those there don't know 100% of what was really happening.

So yes I'd GUESS the instructor was at fault, but I'm not willing to pass judgement since I don't know all if the facts!

"accidentally broke his arm"?

That would not fly very well with Division and Youth Services, if I did that to my child.

That would not fly very well with the police, if I did that to my wife (or child).

A good instructor does not need to see/hear/feel a tap-out to know when to stop. Yet the student DID tap and STILL got his arm broken.

I'm thinking the instructor wanted to establish dominance, perhaps take a swipe at Taekwondo (I'm assuming you're talking about your style?)

What he did was reckless at best. I'm sure he or his insurance will be paying the medical costs, yes? Because if not, a lawyer will make it quite clear whether or not his actions amounted to recklessness.

EDIT: Yes, I did suggest that it had more to do with style snobbery - not necessarily hatred - there's a difference. I've seen so much nationalism and xenophobia in martial arts that I figure ignorance, incompetence, and snobbery are just as common as each other. I know that when we get new incoming black-belts students in my Aikido school (whether from the same or different style), some of our students (definitely not the instructor) will "test" the new student. One of my friends is an assistant instructor at a local MMA gym (whose owner is related in some way to the owner of a boxing gym a mile away). In the MMA and boxing gyms, they don't particularly like students of other styles coming in, I guess they see it all as a challenge of some kind. In fact, when I visit the MMA gym, my friend reminds me not to mention I'm a student of other styles (taekwondo and aikido) (and worse: an instructor of TKD). A new TKD school just opened up about a mile from me last month. I came in, introduced myself, and chatted with the owner, who took pains to shake my hand and bow extremely low, and show me his dojang. Then he asked me if I had experience, and I mentioned it, and he then introduced me to the nearest black belt, a 16 year old kid who at the time was wiping down the windows. He excused himself and left - and left me talking to this girl who had no idea what to say to me. After about 10 minutes or so, she went to go look for him, and she came back and told me he left. This is the same style (WTF) that I come from, and he pulled this stunt.

So I'm more than used to the idea of people not liking me just because I have a different journey in martial arts than they have. Based on the limited information provided, I have no reason to believe this can't also be possible - and I stand by that. This isn't a rare occurrence, heck we see snobbery here in Y!A every single day. It is not out of the question that the instructor is incompetent and/or a snob. And given that you qualified him as "master", I have to assume he knows what he's doing. And he knew he was hurting the student, despite the student trying to tap out in any manner - sight, sound, touch. His experience, and his queue to stop, should have told him to stop. And he didn't.

On the other hand, there could be another side of the story. Was your student horsing around? That wouldn't be uncommon for a 22-year old, would it? But you say you knew the student, so I'm inclined to think you'd have mentioned this detail if you thought this was the case.

Maybe it was a freak accident? Maybe in the process of getting released (painfully unharmed), your student lost balance and rolled onto his arm - breaking it (or something similar - accidentally got kicked or bumped).

I'm all for looking for other possible motives. But you'd have mentioned if it was thought by all to be an accident - and you didn't.

What else is there to consider?

EDIT: thanks for the added details. I'm convinced more than ever it wasn't an accident - it was a deliberate. I agree - you don't break a humorus accidentally.

Curious... now I have several questions for you, mostly to get an idea of the mindset - still trying to erase (or confirm) the theory that "accident" was the cause. but also, I guess I have some morbid curiosity about the incident.

What was the instructor's behavior before, during, and after the incident?

What about the other students', and your student's, reactions when he realized he was injured? Was an ambulance called, or was it something that was discovered later on? What kind of medical attention did he get? What kind of break (simple, compound, hairline, etc)?

Was there (or will there be) legal action taken? And what was the context of the injury - a demonstration of a technique, sparring, or something else? How long has the student been training there? And, does your student intend to continue training there?

BJJ McDojo-ism seems well represented in this thread. What exactly is the basis for determining Frank is full of crap and making a story up? Because of the goofy way he writes Sifu? If this question had been the same, but the topic "Korean Master breaks leg with kick", several more of the BJJ clowns would have been spouting off about TKD McDojo's and how they can believe it happened.

Cross training is exactly what guys like lil KW are always saying, TMA dudes should incorporate BJJ and be complete. Yet it seems, since there was an accident that should not have happened, involving a BJJ McTeacher, the person posing the question must be making it up, and the word master needs exploration into style etiquette to determine if it is being used properly. Yet a BJJ blue belt bragging constantly about being a McTeacher doesn't raise an eyebrow and is told he is absolutely right when he says TMA sucks.

That's very amusing. I guess the bright side is, BJJ'ers are acknowledging one needs to now worry about encountering the BJJ McDojo, where 20 years ago it was impossible, and anyone practicing, getting national or global recognition, could show a certificate signed by a Gracie.

It would be easy to say it was a grudge break, I don't doubt that type of teacher exists in every single art. But I don't really see that as the point of the question. Maybe I am alone, but I thought the point was did the teacher malfunction? The answer is, if a student is hurt during interaction with the "teacher", it is ALWAYS the guy or girl in charge that is at fault.

Edit - Shaeeck - Last time I asked about rank protocols, all you supplied was a post about being offended, always respectful of other arts and what a great bunch of people BJJ promotes. Nobody gave me a definitive answer, stated with some degree of authority as if suggesting they knew the Gracie rules. I didn't believe your answer here, so I checked their site. (The reason I asked previously is I have seen it stated that only black belts can teach) All that confirmation does for me, is indicate the Gracie's are spearheading the McDojoing of their art, but that is a different argument.

I actually learned something having to double check information I had doubts on. I also stumbled across this in support of quality, instructors and integrity. " Each certified instructor is an extension of the Gracie Family and a representative of the Gracie Academy. All ICP candidates must personify discipline, integrity, and honor. They must be healthy in mind and body, and, most importantly, they must have a passion for empowering others."

I'm not the only one that read a degree of disrespect in your post, or callsigns. You suggest purple belts are beyond stupidity, so there is no way a "real" BJJ instructor, inferring quality throughout the "family" (putting them above idiots like McDojo teachers) could make that mistake. (yes, I know, you didn't quote "real", but that is the tone of your post) I also discovered there are only about 30 academies in the USA, none in my state, yet there are listings for no less than 6 BJJ schools in the immediate area. My point about signed certificates 20 years ago, was, there was nobody questioning anyone, as they do in all arts, about lineage authenticity,. You seem to be suggesting you believe there will be at least one Gracie signature on any certificate,

In accordance with Gracie decree, do you find a member of your family telling a female on this site that her opinion means nothing and she needs to shut the fk up? Because you posted behind him saying he was right. How about a member of your family that states it is fun to ruin the quality of a discussion on arts by trolling the site? How about plotting to get personal information on TMA teachers in attempt to slander them locally and influence drop out rates? That the typical way to represent BJJ? Because you can check with any of the TMA regulars, that have seen this conduct for the past 4 years, from white belt to blue. I've seen you make statements about reporting people to the organization, a "thug" that was going to do backyard MMA. The above teacher you suggest can't be a true BJJ instructor. By and large, those two are being stupid, yet the blue belt allowed to teach kids, plotting to ruin lives, isn't being a doucshebag. You seem to have conflicting standards, double as they say.

I don't know why you would ask what's wrong with it since you know..

It's called "accidents happen". When you get people training full-contact, it's going to happen sooner or later.

Edit: alright, let's examine the information we have on the subject-

"Student in B J J class has arm broken by master."

The term "master" is hardly ever used in BJJ. When it IS used, it's usually in reference to those rare guys above 6th Dan, who are often in their 50's or older. I have my doubts that there was a "master" involved here. Given that, the expression brings with it certain connotations in the martial arts community. People expect more of a "master". The instructor was almost certainly not considered a "master" unless the student went to train with Rickson Gracie or something.

"The student was pinned and trying to tap out."

"Trying to" indicates he actually had not done so yet, which, with all due respect, indicates a lack of experience on the part of the student. I've got several different ways I can signal my training partners to stop doing what they're doing, and anyone who's been training for more than a year will recognize them. Sounds to me like the student hadn't tapped out, however, and that's an important point here.

"The student's upper arm (Humerus) was broken."

This indicates to me that it was probably a bent arm lock, probably a Kimura, Americana, or possibly an Omoplata. The thing about bent arm locks is that they're ostensibly shoulder locks. Some people have more flexible shoulders than other. Personally, I've been on the other side of this and have had my elbow pop while in an Americana, because I have flexible shoulders and THAT part of my arm wasn't hurting; the elbow tendons gave, on the other hand. Point being that in locks of that nature, there's a spectrum concerning the range of motion, unlike locks on the hinge joints.

"The student is medium build and very fit"

Irrelevant.

"He is one of my students."

Indicates the OP will likely have a bias in favor of his student. Description of events may be tainted in student's favor.

"He decided to cross train at the B J J school because he wanted to compete pro for a while."

Mostly irrelevant, but might indicate a competitive/aggressive personality in the student, and an unwillingness to tap.

"He is around 22 years old and has been training with us for several years."

Only relevant bit here is how long he's been training. But how much of that training was ground fighting and submissions? I would guess not a whole lot, since he decided to cross train at a school that specialized in those skills.

"Has always been a good student"

The only relevant bit here is what it says to the narrative. A "good" person had something "bad" happen to them. Invites the audience to be more sympathetic.

I guess I'm getting defensive here because I see a lot of guys coming down on the instructor. Alright, fair point, most guys with a few years experience can tell when a limb is in danger. That said, when I see people get injured in grappling, it's almost always either a) an accident or b) dude didn't tap when he should have (mostly new guys). Kokoro is suggesting that this was something done deliberately because the instructor didn't like TKD? That just sounds crazy to me. This isn't the 1980's when the Gracies were challenging everyone. Hell, most BJJ instructors I know (and most of the students) have practiced other martial arts before they took up BJJ.

Look, I sympathize with the guy who got injured. That sucks and can effect everything from training time to whether or not he can keep a job. But even the most aggro BB I've ever trained with wasn't trying to take my arm off. And while I'm not as active in the BJJ community as some others, I've rolled with a lot of dudes from a lot of academies. The notion that an instructor (notice I'm not using the term "master") purposely injuring a student, especially a beginner, is crazy-talk. If that was standard behavior for the school, they wouldn't have any students, after all. Based on my experience, and stories I've heard over the years from guys at other schools, it's hard for me to believe anything except the student either didn't know that they were in trouble, or tried to "tough out" a hold a little too long.

Edit 2: My mistake, Kokoro. It was actually Possum that suggested that.