??traditionalist?? Why are they bashed by mma. Read close to what I say...?

Good, question. I don't know why some mma fans bash traditional martial arts.
Muay Thai, and JJ are traditional in a sense.
The biggest reason I suppose is the whole "train to fight" thing.
Some traditional martial arts do not do that. You need to fight and spar full contact. Or at least in my opinion.
In short, I have no idea.

i see it as boiling down to the age old argument: my daddy can beat up your daddy

edit:>
hi is a perfect example, she sounds like a little girl whining all the time

Yeah, why are they? You did a real good job of bashing everybody who is traditional not too long ago, Gary. I don't know why people have such hatred for the world and everything that is in it. Why?

Edit: No, I do not know why you did this. Since I am not into bashing others I have no concept why people feel the need to do so. Never been on here? May I compliment you on your graceful entry to our little community. Speaks volumes about you.

For me, the reason I bash TMA is not because I hate TMA, but I bash the training methods.

I've said several times before that there is nothing wrong with TaeKwonDo, an art that is pretty much in the cross-hairs of every MMA fan and even some traditionalists. However, the problem is most schools I've ever seen teach TaeKwonDo have watered down standards. Like take my school for example. We had kid black belts (not super young, but 12), we practiced Olympic style sparring (full contact which is good, but unfortunately very restricted rules such as no face punches, no leg kicks, no elbows or knees or clinching of any kind), etc. All of these things lead to ineffective students. The sad thing is that my school was one of the better ones in the area so I'd hate to see what the bad ones were like.

Gary, as a TKD instructor, perhaps you can be proactive and break the mold. But unfortunately most TKD instructors don't.

Edit: by the way, the one TMA I do bash is kung fu... well let's just say I don't think highly of kung fu at all.

I personally hate the term because there's no really clear definition of it, plus it brings to mind images of people using the 'done for thousands of years' dogma and McDojo owners dodging the question of sparring by claiming that you can learn all that and more with kata alone.
I prefer to think of things as good training and bad training, in my mind traditional martial arts training is learning to fight through a combiantion of athletic training, forced stretching and fighting. Traditional training should be a painful affair. McDojos have made a hash of the term and it's hard to step away from it.

Traditional Martial arts doesn't suck and they don't believe in anything that doesn't work. All the moves that don't work are just to train your strength and flexibility. Those techniques are not to be used in real life. Taekwondo, Hapkido, Hwarangdo and stuff are all traditional and they all still work in real life.

MMA fighters don't "bash" tradition. However, MMA is all about weeding out ineffective techniques. You won't find an MMA fighting saying, "If I wave my hands around in the air, I can knock someone out". Guys in gis, on the other hand:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z0_n7tGnK0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I

Now these guys are outliers, but what you find in "traditional" martial arts culture is a willingness to accept things that can't be proven. It's a cultural thing, and I think that's where a lot of the friction lies.

However, many MMA fighters, or even people who have migrated to MMA as a training medium (yours truly), have spent time in traditional systems. Guys like Georges St-Pierre, Bas Rutten, Anderson Silva, Ben Henderson, and more have come from backgrounds that would be recognized as "traditional" martial arts. Some local MMA gyms offer classes in things like Wing Chun Kung Fu and Kali. It's hardly like MMA and "traditional" martial arts are mutually exclusive. I think the big difference is that if you show an MMA-oriented person that something is effective, they'll use it, no matter where it comes from, but if you show a die-hard "traditionalist" that something outside of their sphere of learning is effective, instead of going, "Wow, that sweep from Butterfly Guard is really effective, I'd better learn it in case I'm ever taken to the ground," you get, "I'll never got to the ground in a real fight because I don't want to," as if the laws of physics don't apply to them, and that guys who are REALLY GOOD at getting people to the ground and mauling them there don't exist. It's a loyalty to style that becomes almost cult-like in some cases, to the point of denying that one can learn something from other systems.

Again, this doesn't DEFINE "traditionalists", but you're more likely to find that mentality in someone who identifies themselves as "traditional".

But back to your original post. Can you learn how to do something really, really well without going to a "traditionalist"? Depends on how you define "traditional". Is wrestling traditional? I'd argue that it's the *oldest* tradition. How about boxing? Even Queensberry rules pre-date most karate and TKD systems, so by virtue of being older, is it "traditional"? Modern Muay Thai, Judo, Sambo, and Brazilian Jiujitsu tend to have a focus on sport competition; some people would say that they're not, or no longer, "traditional". Some would disagree.

You also have to realize that the majority of extant martial arts have to be modified for MMA. The classic bladed boxing stance leaves you open to leg kicks, moves in BJJ, Judo, and Sambo that use the gi have to be modified or abandoned, and so on. So your example of learning kicking from a "traditionalist" who has "done [it] for years" only works to a certain extent. I've got a buddy who's great at Olympic-style TKD- a former national champ who was an Olympic alternate back in 2000- but he's honest with himself enough to know that if he tried to kick in an MMA contest the way he kicked in a TKD contest, he'd get taken down in an instant. You can also teach someone good kicking, punching, etc. without having them go through what would be recognized as a "traditional" venue. So you actually *could* (and some people have) develop skills without going directly to a "traditional" source. Now you could make the argument that all techniques come from sources that are identified as "traditional", but if you want to take that road, I'd say that MMA is the MOST traditional, since it can be traced back, in spirit, to Pankration, which existed in ancient Greece.

I consider myself a traditionalist and I have never bashed MMA or any other martial art. I have, however, been critical of how some are taught.

There are two kinds of traditionalist or people who call themselves one. There are those who are infatuated with the trappings and rituals of a tradition which is okay so long as you keep in mind that nothing remains constant and that a martial art that is static is basically a dead art. Then there are those traditionalists who while respecting the history and understands the significance of a tradition, strives to build upon the past just as all the pass generation of great masters have done.

I respect my teachers because they have seen more of life and the world than I have - at least at that point in time. I try to understand what they taught me within the context that their experience was from another time and place that may not "fit" my circumstance, but then again it might.

I think the best way to sum my view as a traditionalists is that while the world around us changes, the human condition has not. For the lack of a better phrase, there is this static dynamism in the world we live in. It changes, but at the heart it does not. The way we fight has changed, but then it really has not because we still have 2 arms and 2 legs that bends only a certain way. If someone else has found better way for himself, that is fine with me but what is best of one person may not be so for me.

I am a traditionalist, but I am a tolerant one.

As imperfect human beings, we do not possess perfect knowledge. What is passed on from master to student is never complete even in the best of circumstance because in the end martial art is the journey that the individual artist makes and whatever teachings from ones master are only signposts along this road we take.

Assuming that you are referring to those that study traditional martial arts as they should be rather than the garbage seen in 99% of all martial arts schools, the answer is still No. The mma has rules and is not about life or death anyway. It is more about ego and money. If a truly skilled and knowledgeable traditional martial artists was to compete, he is at a disadvantage before he steps into the ring. Many of the real martial arts techniques are illegal according to mma rules. The strikes to the throat, eyes, testicles,... are not allowed. Neck breaks are not allowed. small joint locks are either not allowed or almost impossible to do on a person wearing gloves as used in the mma. And the mind set and training methods are not compatible either. Traditional martial arts does not train its students to spar for round after round. Real fights don't last that long and are not decided by decision. ...

I apologize, but I can't figure out what you're saying. Your question is filled with misspellings and grammatical errors...to the point that it's not making any sense.

OK, I get the point that you think that MMA supporters "bash" traditional martial arts. And I've answered a bunch of such questions saying: No, most don't. Beyond that, though, your points are lost.

Martial Arts, as a whole, has a very similar attitude as shooters do. It becomes about pride in either the time you've spent training, or the money you've spent, and no one wants to think that they've wasted their time. The reason that one MA system hates another is the same as the argument between 9mm vs. .45 (even though we all know that .40cal is the best, lol). In any case, you are improved, your survival is enhanced, you have power, yet there's always going to be someone better, but you have to justify your ego by downing the paths that aren't your own.

Cause TMA SUCKS!