Whos side would you undertake?

I am on the side of common sense & not discounting a training tool that may enable an owner to reliably achieve a goal with a dog they are working with, on the basis of tittle-tattle.

I have a Dobermann b*tch with a high prey drive & that drive is hard-wired into her mind, so when she catches sight of a rabbit, her instinct is to chase, bring it down & eat it. Prey drive is satisfying behavior to a dog & one given the choice it would obey, so the dog would not snap back from prey & obey a recall/leave command, simply to please its owner.

You cannot remove a drive that nature gave a dog, but you can suppress it with obedience training, & the dog will obey because it's clear in its head that ignoring a command has a negative effect it instinctively fears, & want to avoid, so compliance is therefore a more satisfying behavior.

Controlling prey drive using an e-collar to achieve a reliable recall regardless of any distraction the dog may encounter can be life saving, & in my opinion it's far kinder to train a dog, than to scrape it off the road because it ran into the path of a car or caused an accident injuring/killing the dog & humans.

Any training tool is as safe for the dog to wear as the handler's ability to fit & use it correctly.
(I have lost count of the number of occasions I have seen a dog in a flat leather or nylon collar straining against it choking & that to my mind is anything but kind.)

Yes, I'd try anything if I had a problem dog and didn't want to rehome it because it wouldn't behave. Such training could save its life.

I have no problem with anti-bark shock collars. Feel the darn shock yourself -- it's like when you used to rub a balloon on carpet and touch someone with it -- a static shock. Those folks who are against shock collars -- are they out banning ballons and carpet???

Dogs bark. Some dogs bark a lot. As a trainer of many titled dogs, BARKING in a persistent barker is almost impossible to stop. A shock collar works wonders and does not shock the dog if they do not bark. Simple as that.

I also don't have a problem with "debarking" as I know many debarked herding dogs and they "bark" happily away...they don't care that they're not making a huge racket!!!

The old story again......"I put it on my wrist and it just tingled"
Put it on your neck.......that's where the dog wears it, then say it "just tingled"............sigh
I've been a competition obedience trainer for 40 years and have seen methods come and go, and although shock collars are still in use with some trainers, the majority of us have learned enough about how dogs think that we don't need to use them. The argument will continue on and on and has been debated on every training list I've ever joined. You will not change the mind of anyone that would rather bully a dog than train it, so you do what your heart tells you to do when you train.
I've trained a Miniature Schnauzer, 2 Westies, 3 Rough Collies, and 8 shelties to high titles in the obedience ring with no more aversions than a simply "uh uh" for correction. My dogs have all placed, won high in trials, high combined, UDXs, with happy wagging tails and excellent retrieving skills without have to ear pinch. You will never convince some of these same trainers that a dog can have a reliable retrieve without an ear pinch, but my dogs never ever refused a retrieve in the ring and I never ear pinched any of them. My instructor with several OTCH dogs uses an ear pinch and I've watch her dogs refuse many times.............nuff said.

HAHAHAHAHA I love the opposing person, they're funny! But in all seriousness, their in the wrong, E collars can be a very effective tool when used properly.

It's a tool. Like a hammer, it can be very useful in the hands of someone who has an idea of what they're doing. But just like a hammer, people can misuse it.

I find that most of the people shouting 'have you ever tried it' have never tried it themselves.

I'd be on the "against" side.
It IS the lazy way out of training. There's a decidedly cruel edge to them as well ("I can't train you and you won't listen, so I'm going to hurt you"). It's rather sad how easily people can buy them. It's downright disgusting how easy they are to abuse (and face facts, the kind of people that are going to look to a shock collar first aren't going to be using them properly or go through the steps to use them WITH a training program). Even if they aren't "severe" to the point of causing a human discomfort, in many ways dogs are more sensitive to stimulus, even if not painful they could easily react to the stimulation negatively (I've seen dogs cower after a leash pop).
Ugh.. shock collars are just irresponsible and nasty. I can't even call them a training tool..

I personally can't see a situation I'd ever use one.

::shrug:: It's a hot issue that I don't see being resolved anytime soon, especially since emotions tend to get heated (on both sides).

ABSOLUTELY NOT SHOCK COLLARS ARE WRONG. It is cruel and a lazy irresponsible owners way of shutting up your pet. Would a person like it if they had a shock collar on them?

If it is an extreme case where nothing else has worked...then yes I would use one. Dogs chasing cars is one example of an extreme case.

They're just a TOOL to TRAIN dogs......something the average boob-in-the-street can't comprehend. They'd rather live in a manure-pile than housebreak,f'rkrissake.

Our dog is as silent as the hills ... until we leave. We tried & TRIED training but it's difficult when he only barks when we have left.

There was no way of training him ... and he was a problem to our close neighbors. One said she walked over to the front door and told him, to "Be quite" and he listened while we were gone.

We had to do something quick as we were disturbing other's with his loud bark.

We put the collar on him for about a month, and he no longer wear's it. And we do not come home to a barking dog anymore.... it worked wonder's compared to training.

He has Weimaramer in him and they're known to howl/bark/be upset while owner's are gone. Very intelligent but stubborn dog I have learned from my own dog's traits.

I don't think it's cruel ... I do thinking having surgery to take their voice boxes out is though... our friend's daughter did that to all her dog's that she shows.

I have never used them. I have never had a dog that I could not train with positive training techniques. I have never had a strong willed large dog. If it was a matter of having to have my dog euthanized because he was too aggressive, I would definitely try the shock collar. The dog trainer that taught my dog's obedience class used that on his Doberman Pincher who was very well trained. He only used the shock collar as a back up. It sure got a fast response when he used it.

umm good i really like selena and demi and that i do love miley too however mandy pisses me off, shes a nasty impact on miley and that i simply dont like her..and that i dont like that they made a laugh of selena and demi. so i could be on selena and demis aspect however i do nonetheless love miley.

I don't think they're inherently abusive, but they can be used in such a way that they can be. Not necessarily out of deliberate malice, but out of ignorance.

It's a training aid that does apparently have potential for doing more harm than good if used incorrectly. On the other hand, there are those who use them to train dogs to a very high standard and find them to be a very useful tool - and the dogs' life is a good one.

My own personal view is that they should be allowed, but I'd like to see some form of control on them. Some stats on the amount of people who actually have them and what effect they've had (positive and negative) would be useful too.

you can shout in it but not to use the SHOCK COLLAR