The Spartans were....HOMOSEXUALS?!?!?

I just finished studying Spartan society for 2 months, here's what I know about homosexuality:
first of all you must realise that everything the spartans did was for a military reason. secondly, much of what we think we know about them today is based on the "spartan propaganda myth". Spartan boys were given a mentor, this was to foster an importance of brotherhood. in battle (which (supposedly) was a Spartiate's sole purpose in life) Spartans relied upon their brothers in arms. the key fighting style of the spartans, the phalanx, required them to stand in a line and cover half of their bodies, and half of the body of the person to their right with their shield. you can see how one must both trust the person covering you with you life, as well as do anything in your power to cover the person on your right. the sexual relations between men ensured that they would be willing to die for one another, also if the army was everything and the army was headed for a suicide mission than this also ensured that there would be no deserters, for if the people you live for and fight for are with you, where would you rather be? another reason is that in ancient times war campeigns often lasted many years, and so sexual relations between men ensured that the army was not suffering from any pent up sexual tension when in battle, this would not cloud their judgement, or force them to engage in sex with foriegn prostitutes, thereby diluting precious spartiate blood as well as opening up risks of possible diseases. also under the Lykourgan reforms contact with foreigners was not encouraged.

as for the idea that Spartans engaged in homosexual activites because they saw women as weak, this is compleatly untrue. women in Sparta were taught to fight alongside the men and educated in much the same way. there is a quote (and no, this quote did not origionate from the film 300, it is a traditional saying of spartan women) that states "when a woman from Attica asked "why is it that you Spartans are the only women who can rule men?" Gorgo replied, "Because we are the only ones who give birth to men"". Women were in fact greatly honoured for their abilities to produce children, in fact there were only two cases in which a Spartan would be allowed an epitath on his burial place, and this was if he had died in battle or a woman who died in "sacred office", or childbirth. from this historians have gathered that to Spartans, childbearing was considered just as important as fighting, which in their society means a lot. Women in Sparta also had many more rights than women in Athens did, and many more civil liberties.

also, Spartan men were required by the state to marry. every year there was a festival called the Gymnopaedia or "running of the naked boys" held in the summer, all of the unmarried men had to run it in the winter, as well as pay for the summer festival to embarass them into getting married. there was also a tax that unmarried men over a certain age had to pay every year that they weren't married.

so as a final answere to your question; the Spartan's did engage in homosexual activites, but in reality some would have been homosexual and some wouldn't have, just like today. they were highly encouraged by their government to marry as it was in the best interests of Spartiates to reproduce, as their selective measures caused their number to be quite small.

hope this helped

Yes. The Spartans thought that being with a woman was for weak ones. While having a relationship with other Spartans to be "manly".

LOL, man times have changed.

You cannot look into sexual life of the ancient people with our present way of thinking. Back then they had not divided people into straight, gay, or bisexual, this concept is modern invention. People did not see their sexuality sinful, nor needed to be put into categories, since the male could do whatever he pleased to. Certainly not all Spartans were homosexuals and the percentage of homosexually oriented people would be the same back then as today; however, it can be certain that many of them had behaved that way or were exposed to it. Spartan society was a dictatorship or police state, where all aspect of the human life was controlled by the government for the good of the society. Men were required to serve their country and it was institutionalized service where contacts with opposite sex was prohibited. It probably led to institutionalized homosexual behavior to similar extend we can see today in prison. Men were living, training, fighting, and dying together. Male bonding was easily created, if these men were living together since very young age. Women in Greek world had not mean much and the womb of the Spartan woman was seen as the property of the government. Men did not have a chance to meet and hook up with girls as we can do today. Women were owned and property of some other man. Social interaction was rather minimal and prostitution would be difficult since Spartan males did not have much coinage in the circulation nor lived from trade and agriculture. Such environment where lack of woman and abundance of sexually charged young males would allowed same-sex relationship to flourish. After certain age could males marry, usually serving for 20 years or so. Hence, the bonding during males sexual prime was inevitable.

Back to your question if Spartans were homosexuals, it may seen to us they were. Many were open about their attraction to same sex. There are documented cases when Spartan males killed other male if he rejected his sexual advances. After the defeat of Sparta in the 4th century BC, many Greeks sources blamed decline on Sparta military power on choosing good looking males into military leadership based on the look over fighting capabilities. Today we would say that the military became prime destination for Spartan gay males and eventually became integrated within this system, where each generation of gay males would eventually ended in the military. Similarly today certain professions would attract gay males, like medieval church and monastic orders attracted them in the past. Since we know little about the Sparta due the army and almost nothing about its agriculture or civic life, we could not deduct how common was same-sex relationship in that region outside the fighting force.

It wasn't just the Spartans, but all Greeks. The Athenians believed that the highest form of love was that between two men. Kind of makes you think when you hear all those fraternity boys yelling "Go Greek!" doesn't it. But this was common on through Roman times. Why do you think the Apostle Paul went to Corinth? On its Acropolis they had a temple to Aphrodite and practiced religious prostitution. You should read the many novels, like "The Last of The Wine" by Mary Renault about the Pelopessian (sp.) War.
I guess this wasn't all bad, because after that war Sparta ruled the country until they were defeated by the Thebes and their "Sacred Band" which was made of pairs of lovers.

In the ancient Greek world, bisexuality among men was considered to be the norm. Among all Greeks, the relationship of eromenos and erastes (eromenos = youth, erastes = adult) was considered to be a normal thing.

You need to understand that in the ancient Greek world, men did not go about with women in public, except with hetairas (courtesans or prostitutes, depending on the price). Marriages were generally arranged based on social standing and the economic status of the parties involved. Women of virtue did not go about in the company of men who were not members of their families. They did not appear with their husbands in public. To some extent, the eromenos took the place of the woman as someone whose presence in public at the erastes' side was acceptable and defined his status in much the same way that women as "arm candy" and "trophy wives/girlfriends" define the status of males in today's society. Young men (ephebes) of good family and good looks were courted by male suitors much as a model or starlet might be courted by suitors today; having an ephebe of high birth and accomplishment and good looks as his eromenos accrued status to the erastes.

In Spartan (and Theban) society, there was the additional issue of having the erastes and eromenos going into battle together. No other relationship was considered to be as appropriate for men going to war. The Thebans formed a special fighting unit, the Sacred Band, whose members consisted entirely of paired erastes and eromenos, who swore oaths of loyalty to one another.

If you want to get a sense of what life was like in the ancient Greek world, I highly recommend the novels by Mary Renault. These are very well-researched and deal with the subject of bisexuality in a way that goes to the heart of the subject without getting graphic or belaboring the issue.

if they were homo how to reproduce future generation?
probably not.
they were trained hard from young,
fought like tigers

Maybe there were some but not all of them. Just like you.

Yes. And no. A little bit of both.
Few human being are 100% hetero- or homosexual. It is very common for boys today to have some limited gay experience. Seeing who can pee the farthest, or who has the biggest willie, for example. Technically speaking, those are homosexual actions. But few people think this automatically makes their Billy a Bruce, right?

In ancient times child sex was completely normal. If one could afford a pleasure slave, one did. That might be a girl or boy or a woman or man pending the desires of the owner. There is very good reason to assume the 'beloved' servant of the Roman centurio who came to Jesus was such a boy. again, in those days, that was completely normal. It happened in any Mediterranean society.

Gay sex is a bit different. That was common in Greece, but up to a certain age. Love between man up to 40 years with young boys was accepted and normal, older man were supposed to be past it. It was "not done". This was definitely NOT intentional child abuse. The relationship was voluntary, on both sides.

Since Spartan men had no trouble procreating or raping when in the field, you can say they were bi-sexual. Of course, this was one sided. Woo to the woman who did the same!

yup haha i wonder why that wasnt in 300!

alot of people in ancient greece were gay or bi sexual it was very common.


Another intresting thing is that Athens had a company of 150 gay couples. THe idea was that they would show that they were as manly as non homosexuals and that if they would run away from battle because they would not want to lose their lover or their honor. They all died when king philip II or macedonia killed them all in battle. After the battle king Philip said "I will kill any of my men who say these athenians were not brave".

The Spartans were real men, cultivated the cult of strength and virility.
No exception is that she is in the tent with all men, diatanti from home, that some act of sexual pederasts there was.


By H

Yes. The Greeks entwined homosexual relations with manliness. Another famous example is the Theban Sacred Band. Thebes eventually defeated Sparta. Their elite warriors were pairs of homosexual lovers/ warriors, forming the "Sacred Band".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_Band_of_Thebes
Plutarch records that the Sacred Band was made up of male couples, the rationale being that lovers could fight more fiercely and cohesively than strangers with no ardent bonds. According to Plutarch's Life of Pelopidas[2], the inspiration for the Band's formation came from Plato's Symposium, wherein the character Phaedrus remarks,
And if there were only some way of contriving that a state or an army should be made up of lovers and their loves, they would be the very best governors of their own city, abstaining from all dishonour, and emulating one another in honour; and when fighting at each other's side, although a mere handful, they would overcome the world. For what lover would not choose rather to be seen by all mankind than by his beloved, either when abandoning his post or throwing away his arms? He would be ready to die a thousand deaths rather than endure this. Or who would desert his beloved or fail him in the hour of danger?
—[3]
The Sacred Band originally was formed of picked men in couples, each lover and beloved selected from the ranks of the existing Theban citizen-army. The pairs consisted of the older "heniochoi", or charioteers, and the younger "paraibatai", or companions, who were all housed and trained at the city's expense.[4] During their early engagements, in an attempt to bolster general morale, they were dispersed by Gorgidas throughout the front ranks of the Theban army.

Quite a few of them WERE actually... Homosexuality wasn't the "big deal" it is NOW... And since many of those Warrior Societies back then were Patriarchal & exclusively MEN- quite a few men naturally took "advantage" of what was available ! They weren't "perverted" or anything like THAT... Those were just a part of the ACCEPTED Values of the Times... The BOTTOM Line IS; there's MORE to History than most of Us realize... :)

Spartan Homosexuality

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Yah that was by far the best bowl game thus far. I didn't expect MSU to come back in the first place to force OT. And then after almost losing it in the first OT came back to win it in the 3OT. That was a pretty awesome game. Congrats Spartans

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RE:
The Spartans were....HOMOSEXUALS?!?!?
Ok, I've recently been researching the Spartans. Great warriors, feared and respected right? Well I'm scrolling through Wikepedia and I find an article on "Spartan Pederasty."

Apparently at a young age Spartan boys would find an older male mentor who would teach them and be a...

A spartan man would probably not think of himself as homosexual. That is, he would get married and raise a family as men were expected to do. But he might also enjoy a relationship with a young boy (between the ages of 12 and 18 were thought to be the most desirable). The same was true of ancient Athens. Once the boy attained manhood, and started to grow a beard, he was no longer considered suitable as an object of affection.

The older man was generally supposed to adopt the active masculine role, while the boy adopted the passive feminine role. For an adult male to assume the passive role was frowned upon. One the boy grew a beard, he was supposed to take on the role of an adult male.

as has already been said the greeks as a whole did not view sexuality in terms of straight gay etc,

the taking of a young boy as a companion and lover was normal and considered honourable, often the father of the boy would ask his best friend to be the boys 'mentor' this was considered a great honour among male greeks, (sex was just one small part of the mentoring relationship, the man would be expected to teach the boy many things in preparation for manhood) at the same time if you refused your friends son, then this was a grave insult, (they viewed it as you considered the boy not good enough for you)

one thing should be pointed out, ANAL SEX was a definite no-no, if a man violated a boy anally (willingly or not, he risked social punishment)
(this is the point that the greek states always accused each other of doing, suggesting that man/boy love was normal, but anal sex was not and those that practised that were sick)

another point to consider is the first greek unit to ever beat the spartans in battle

the 'SCARED BAND' were an elite unit in the army of Thebes, they were the city guard and numbered 300 men.

the 300 men were in fact 150 gay couples, the idea being the men fight harder knowing their lover is watching.

this unit dominated the greek battlefields for 50 years until fighting to the last man against the army of alexander the great.

Alexander stood over their bodies at the end of the battle and visibly moved said 'let no man think evil of them'

also Alexander the great had a 'male companion' and several wife's

so you see man-love was very common in greece throughout its history

I am sure some were!