THE ATHEISM VS. THEISM DEBATE?

2009-06-08 7:56 am

ALL THIS DEBATE FOR WHAT?

The bible was written in greek,aramaic,and hebrew.Mostly in hebrew for the old testament.translations from hebrew almost 3000 years ago does not mean the same thing it does now.The bible cannot be read as word for word .
translations now and the meanings then are different.
Even the style of writing.You must read the full context of the verse,chapter or book to get the full understanding.Then you have to reseach the age in which the book was written to get the total understanding of it.

Some things are metaphorical,some are literal,some are dreams,alot are visions,interpretation of dreams and visions and prophecies.The majority of the new testament is Letters to followers spread around asia,africa,the middle east and europe.There is but two commandments....two things GOD Demands of us humans....Love GOD (that which created us with all your heart,soul and mind.)Love your neighbor(fellow human being) as you would love your self.and to remember that christ died that we may all have everlasting life.That he died for our sins.That's it....there is no scripture that says....you must take all scripture as truth or fact.There is no scripture that says the universe was created 6,000 years ago.That's crap.that quotation is taken from a scripture in isaiah where it reads my words are not your words and my thoughts are not your thoughts.

As 1000 years are to man ,a day is to GOD.You think that author could understand 6 billion years?That's where this whole 6,000 years crap came from.No one is suppose to believe that.
It is descriptive.........THE BIBLE is not meant to be a science book or a math book,but a faith/life/love/morality book.But there are undeniable truths in the bible.there is poetry,there are wars,slavery,but there are also ways to find peace and ways to be free.

ATheists want a evolutionary description of every animal and how,why and where they were created.They want scientific theories or something.They ignore the fact that genesis said In the beginning the heavens(universe) was created first and the earth.All planets in the solar system was not mentioned...sorry .Every star,quasar,black hole and singularity was not mentioned either.Neither was the genetic sequence or strategy God used to create DNA.

Einsteins theory of relativity,the BIG BANG theory.....all points to the universe having a BEGINNING.No animal was created/evolved in the bible after humans.....so is true in evolution.So if The author explains the creation of creation in terms that are not scientific then you must accept that.I believe GOD created the universe and all life in ages and stages,using evolution to accomplish it.A Micro/macro evolution mix.The bible's depiction of how the plants,sea creatures,land animals and human evolution came to be CANNOT BE QUESTIONED.Where do evolutionists,biologists and scientists believe all life on earth came from? THE SEAS/THE OCEANS.....It is the same as it is written in GENESIS chapter 20 and 21.(let the waters bring forth the moving creature that hath life,)that is the first mention of life on earth.

UNDISPUTABLE (in order of apperance to accomadate life in genesis and science books all over the world.)

A formless,void earth GEn 1:2
Water(oceans) Gen 1:9
Dry land Gen 1:10
plant life Gen 1:11
SEA LIFE/whales Gen 1 :20
LAND LIFE Gen 1:24
MANKIND Gen 1:27

Evolution....comes to the EXACT same conclusion.

READ THIS...if you don't believe me:
http://ecology.com/features/originsoflife/index.html

That you cannot deny,cannot refute and cannot debate.
So let's move on....that right there alone is a basis for the faith people have.Genesis written around 1500 B.C......evolution(origin of the species)written in 1859 A.D

Let the debate rest.

更新1:

Must we demonize one another in our search for the TRUTH.I find that if someone cannot answer the question,as exhibited here,namecalling and crude attacks must follow.As the agnostic wrote: (an i'm paraphrasing)You do not do yourself justice by attacking the questioner ,if you are unable to attack the question. Update:Answering valid questions 1.Water was not brought to earth by a comet according to our scientists. 2.The references in Gen CH 2,cannot be used as a second chronological order for the formation/evolution of things.The 7 day/age theory in Gen.ch 1 is the author's revelation of creation.chapter 2 deals with the garden.Notice no mention of any sea creature,fish,whale or anything dealing with the ocean was mentioned. 3.Just b/c you cannot refute the fact that the most accredited and smartest scientists in the world have come to the SAME,EXACT evolutionary process on how the universe,earth,and life on the surface of the planet was formed.Solid arguments wanted.

回答 (31)

[匿名]

2009-06-08 8:16 am

✔ 最佳答案

I agree with you, but you're wasting your time. For example, your first poster: these people think they should be allowed to do whatever they want in society, spread as much destructive influence and ideologies as they can, and never be called out on the carpet for it.

Again- a quote from Aldous Huxley that typifies the mindset of these godless bastards:

"For myself, as no doubt for most of my friends, the philosophy of meaninglessnesswas essentially an instrumentof liberation from a certain system of morality. We objected to the morality because it interfered with our sexual freedom (one of your first poster's "concerns").
The supporters of this system claimed that it embodied the meaning - the Christian meaning they insisted - of the world.There was one admirably simple method of confuting these people and justifying ourselves in our erotic revolt: we would deny that the world had any meaning whatsoever."

And there you have it: the mindset of people who could care less about the moral health of the nation, yet have the audacity to tell Christians to "keep your religious beliefs to yourselves".

Ok - I'll tell YOU what: you keep your damn godlessness out of the government, the media, and the classrooms and we'll keep our religious beliefs in the temples and churches and synagogues.

Keep your smut off television and in your "adult" book stores.

Stop making your perverted lifestyles so public and then whining about religious people opposing you when you attempt to make your filth so public (and then accuse Christians of trying to invade your privacy; yea, right- what privacy? You people seem to have some need to make your perversion as public as possible)

You stop doing these things and I guarantee Christians will have nothing more to do with you on any level.

As to your general question, keep science and the bible seperate. One is not predicated on the other and vice versa.

Most people simply need to understand Hebrew verb tense and what the text actually says before they claim that it's "out of order" and therefore it's somehow "wrong".

What's the difference between "created", "formed", and "made"?

Lots. Again - an elementary understanding of the verb tenses used in the Hebrew language would easily dispel all the so-called contentions surrounding the "modern" understanding of an ancient text that was not written as a science textbook.
Only simple-minded fools keep trying to make it do what it was never intended to do.

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[匿名]

2009-06-08 8:07 am

"That's where this whole 6,000 years crap came from."
WRONG !

"James Ussher (sometimes spelled Usher) (4 January 1581–21 March 1656) was Anglican Archbishop of Armagh and Primate of All Ireland between 1625–1656. He was a prolific scholar, who most famously published a chronology that purported to time and date creation to the night preceding 23 October 4004 BC, according to the proleptic Julian calendar."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Ussher

"ATheists want a evolutionary description of every animal and how,why and where they were created."
Kid, atheists don't believe in invisible space critters.
THAT is it.
Don't try to attach a buncha other crap to us.

"all points to the universe having a BEGINNING."
No it doesn't.
Stop parading your ignorance; you're making a fool of yourself.

ALL of the evidence points to evolution.
NONE points to an imaginary psychopath in space suffering cerebral palsy, uncontrollably waving his arms about, creatin' stuff outa nothin' for no discernable reason.
~

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[匿名]

2009-06-08 10:12 am

Surprise, Judaism does in fact believe that there were 3 worlds before our with Adam and Eve. Science today has proved, through DNA that all of us have the same 1 common mom. So what is this with the other worlds? God only knows, perhaps He will explain the details why sea shells are at the top of Mount Everest. As for the Hebrew, interestingly, the Dead Sea Scrolls uncovered, the Tanach (23 of the 24 books) were found by Muslims and Catholics (Muslims burnt a lot of them for fuel before finding out they were valuable, so much for "lost" scrolls). The Tanach which contains the Five Books of Moses (Torah) found there, dated over 350 years ago, around the time the Prophet Ezra and the Great Assembly closed the Bible for any additions. This Bible is the SAME Bible as used today around the globe by Jews. Yes, no differences, no variations, no additions, no subtractions. Can Jews understand it? Yes. Can they read it and know the esoteric knowledge of it? Yes. That is because there is an unbroken chain of scholars & sages that took the time with their photographic memories & great singing voices to memorize every detail, even today. Ezra & the Great Assembly translated the Torah into Aramaic later, a Greek version was done, but the original stayed with the Jews and copyist from other religions had no idea of the meaning, etc. & what a mess they made. Look how many versions they have, over 800 and don't stop there, there are over 16 versions of the trinity. Besides, the Torah laws are for Jews only. To be a righteous God-Fearer & not Jewish, you just follow the Noah Precepts like Ishmael & his descendants via matriarch link with Hagar. All righteous have a share in the World-to-Come regardless of creed, race or gender. No missionaries in Judaism. No mosques or churches needed to be a Noahite, just righteous. Look up the Noah Laws on websites or Chabad.org. As to human-like people before this world--they ran a different software program we weren't privy to know when God made our humanity. It would be a question I would ask if the Third Temple was here or in my lifetime.

參考: It is said that we all have a Spark of Divine in us to be human & not live like the animal soul that is also in us. We all have a stab at making a place for us in this world without all the fuss and muss of masses, Catholic or black masses, or statues or patron saints from Roman days. Just seems a waste of intelligence when people go around telling people how to be saved and I ask from what? Them? It didn't work for my tribes when the boats landed here. If you want consistency and not a history lesson on transubstantiation or the various ways you can create a trinity, then be yourself and find your soulmate and check out being righteous, doing good will make this world a great place no matter what pulpit you shout it from. Good deeds will help generate more. See, "Mysteries of Creation" by Dovid Brown, "Where Judaism Differs" by Abba Silver, "Kabballah on Witchcraft" on Chabad.org, also, Noah laws there too for righteous folks. Check out on web, and Chabad site on the real history of mankind, evolution and the worlds that existed before us, there is a lot of science in Judaism & only recently has science caught up with Judaism and proved the sages right. Many men have stated they were gods, check out web on people that believed they were Jesus for starters. Dr. Sun Moon believe he is a god, so I ask, he is godless? Sounds like Greek to me! Need to get back to my Biblical Hebrew for answers.

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[匿名]

2009-06-08 8:39 am

I vaguely agree with you in principle however I doubt that Genesis is an accurate description of physical events. Rather it is a description of a so-called "spiritual process" (that may have physical consequences).

For example, if I dream about being in an airplane crash it is likely (in terms of my particular psychology and fear of flying) that my subconscious is telling me I feel like my life is out of control. If I then conflate this with "physicality" I'm likely to think that this is some prophecy of events to come. Now since religious epiphany occurs during an altered state of consciousness (we can derive this from the types of practices that are used to induce epiphany from meditation and prayer and fasting for example) we must assume that epiphany is also symbolic in nature or rather that it's nature does not correlate with literal physicality. (You would merely call it "symbolic" if physicality was your "yardstick" for reality)

So it is far more likely that books such as Genesis and Revelation are of this nature rather than being descriptive of physical events. When understood in this light they also make a lot more sense and one no longer needs to attempt to reconcile them with science

Anyway, aside from that I agree with the point you're trying to make, but it works both ways.

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[匿名]

2009-06-08 8:38 am

I am not inclined to debate. I am an atheist. Atheist means someone who does not believe in any God. It does not mean someone who believes in the cosmological myth of creation as presented by science in preference to the cosmological myth of creation as presented by religion. It does not mean that I think evolution has anything to do with the origin of life, or that abiogenesis is a better idea than creation by a Divine being.

I don't deny or refute that you believe, I just don't share your beliefs. If the Bible is good enough to convince you, that's great for you, but it doesn't help me to believe in God and no amount of debate does either. Sorry.

For me the problem is that I am not an atheist who needs proof in order to believe - what I need and honestly do not have - is faith. On a gut level, my intuition, and my instincts tells me that God is not real. For me the process does not involve my intellect so proof either way is irrelevant as far as I am concerned, and there is no point whatever in a "debate" about trusting my intuition/instincts.

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[匿名]

2009-06-08 8:03 am

You've certainly put a lot of thought into this, and you seem quite a bit more logical than most theists. However, you don't present enough evidence to make your case. You seem to be saying that since the universe came from somewhere, it could only have come from the biblical god. That's quite a leap to make and I don't agree. Let the debate continue.

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[匿名]

2016-04-07 1:39 pm

I think each side wants to try and find individual weaknesses in the other in order to win tiny battles. Every time a Christian gets fed up and says something nasty, the atheist smiles and jabs with: "Ha! You're supposed to love your enemies! Where is your God now?" And every time an atheist stumbles and says something like, "Theists are stupid," the theist can come back with, "That is a useless and incorrect argument; how funny that such words would come from the sons and daughters of science and logic!" And eventually we all flame each other like mad, and the debate isn't so much about religion vs. atheism so much as it is about becoming king of the hill for a moment.

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[匿名]

2009-06-08 8:19 am

Not to be mean to any Atheists but if all you can say are things like "short attention span" or "too much text" or "you copied and pasted" (which are all obvious answers) then you're making yourself look bad by not explaining why you think that this theory is a dud.

In reality, you have nothing. And I'm not siding with Theists or with anyone. I'm just simply saying that it makes a lot of you look like you actually know nothing because you can't give a decent answer, besides the obvious.

And that doesn't go for all. I think I saw one answer so far that has explained what they think. Just remember that whenever you blame Christians for not knowing their bibles then you can think back on your own hypocrisy on previous questions.

But to get on with the question, I just want to point out that Genesis 2 seems to put the creation OUT of order. Genesis 2:18-20 suggests that animals were made AFTER Adam (humans). So, in reality, Genesis 2 sums it up like this:

A formless, void earth with no plants or grain - Gen 2:4-6
Water (springs) - Gen 2:6
MANKIND - Gen 2:7
Plant life - Gen 2:8-9
SEA LIFE aka more water (rivers and possibly oceans) - Gen 2:10-14
LAND LIFE - Gen 2:18-20

Seems a bit of a mess to me.

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[匿名]

2009-06-08 8:09 am

IF god did create everything and he is all "perfect" and he created us all in his "perfect" image, why are there so many imperfection in the human body. From what I have seen, the church seems to protect all that it thinks, even if it is absurd. Like when Galileo said the Earth was not flat, but round, the church condemned him to permanent house arrest. Though I do not believe in the Christian/Catholic/what-have-you God, I do believe that there is something out there that started the universe, but it doesn't necessarily have to be a self-righteous, do-as-I-say-or-plague-and famine-or-floods-will-happen God...

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Robin W

2009-06-08 8:07 am

In Biblical cosmology, the heavens are the sky, not the universe. The earth is flat and the sky is a solid dome over the earth (the firmament). Stars are very small, and the moon has its own light. The days are literal days ("And the evening and the morning were the first day."). The sun was created on the 4th day. How do you have four days with no sun?

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