Without a God(s) how can morality exist?

2009-05-14 9:56 am
This is an exploratory question: in my research and experience if a person does not believe in some kind of higher power, (christianity, judaism, islam, buddhism, shinto, daoism, hinduism, greek gods, whatever) then there are really only two other options, and those are:

Nothing- I have met many people who refuse to even include themselves in the argument of "god" and "creation" and all that Jazz and they claim to believe in nothing, this also excludes evolution. it doesn't make sense to me, but that's what I have been told by some. So I guess they would say that there is no driving "force" or innate nature to anything in the universe: everything is coincidence and luck?

Evolution- You believe in evolution as the only force that created mankind and all other living things. So you believe that there are natural laws such as survival of the fittest and adaptation, etc. but not that there is any higher power in the universe.

So assuming that you (the answerer) either believes or has pondered one of these two alternatives (nothing or evolution) how can any kind of morality exist?

In the case of nothing I would think there would only be anarchy: because there aren't even natural laws to govern how life should flourish or prosper, so any person can behave in any way they desire to at any moment, because there is nothing holding them back or telling them that it is "wrong." Documents like the US constitution should have no meaning or importance in this case because it claims that "all men are CREATED equal and are endowed with certain INALIENABLE rights." Created and inalienable are absolutes that claim an "innateness," which a belief in nothing is clearly against. Furthermore, any government or law written would be written by the hands of a human, who is no higher or lower than any other human, so what gives that person the right to say "this is wrong" or "that is right?"

Evolution would be the same for things like law, government, and moral "documents" (like the constitution), because it would pretty much have the same reasoning. However, evolution would have some kind of guidelines for behavior because there are natural laws in evolution. However, in many ways humans would act just like animals under the belief of evolution: murder could easily be defined as survival of the fittest (animals kill each other all the time, and not always for food), things like "marriage" and "love" would be non-existent, there would only be reproduction, etc.

I apologize for the long details, but I wanted to make sure that my point is clear and that the answers are well thought out. I came up with this question when I was asking my atheist friend to explain to me the reasons he believed certain things were "wrong" (like lying or murder). It turned out that many of the reasons he gave me were based on things that were either said by other people (which is a never-ending argument, because you then have to ask why THEY believe it) or that originated in some religion in his past.
更新1:

Hey I never meant to insult anyone, I tried to be as general and inclusive as possible, so please don't get angry with me. The R & S section is where these questions should be explored, so please don't resort to anger and sarcasm. Already I'm seeing people who haven't thought their answers through: if your parents taught you your morals they got them from somewhere, and if you are American more than likely from a religious source, I'm sorry but it's true. The comment made about eating young/babies is actually an interesting point = the Donner party resorted to cannibalism, and other people in the world have done so as well. If all human beings are equal, and there exists no higher authority in the universe, what right does any person have to judge another? For ANY act? (like cannibalism). From comments like "I know right from wrong" it seems like many people believe that morals are innate, or human nature, which is opposite to a belief in evolution, and aligns with religious belief.

更新2:

I may have not been clear, but things like karma are considered to be "higher-powers," they are third-person entities or "laws" that humans are subject to. So karma states that if you behave in ways that put you at odds with the universal karma you will reap negative consequences, this is a higher power that states whether a person believes in it or not it is true. With karma a person who commits a murder on a deserted island with no one around and never gets caught by any human law will still reap negative "punishment" or karma regardless of human intitutions.

回答 (8)

2009-05-14 10:06 am
✔ 最佳答案
Morals are essential to a society. In cave man times, if you stole another guys food all the time, the guy would stop letting you in his cave to share his food and keep warm. The guy would also have told other cavemen that you cannot be bothered to get your own food and instead take from others...he probably would have hit you with his club too.

Apes have a simplistic version of morals, things that are acceptable within their community. As far as I know, they do not have a religion.

Morals are things that humankind has over the ages figured out are essential to get through life. We have figured out we need each other to get the best that we can from life, and to have the best chance of survival.
There are animals that mate for life. Having one partner and forming a bond with them is good for both parties on a survival scale, if someone you care about is in danger, you will look after them.

Not killing another human is a built in preservation of the species thing. The military has had to implement training to make sure that soliders can actually kill people. The instinct not to take life is one of the strongest, it is usually only overridden by the instinct to defend yourself or your family.

Laws were originally a writing down of what was universally agreed on.

Children demonstrate basic morals, if one child repeatedly steals toys from another in the group, that child will be ostracised, and will figure that to be part of the group, they need to co operate with others.
2009-05-14 9:37 pm
The answer is that we all have a pervasive, powerful, unavoidable belief not only in moral values but also in moral obligation. Sociologist Christian Smith puts it like this:

"'Moral'... is an orientation toward understandings about what is right and wrong, just and unjust, that are not established by our actual desires or preferences but instead are believed to exist apart from them, providing standards by which our desires and preferences can themselves be judged."

All human beings have moral feelings. We call it a conscience. When considering doing something that we feel would be wrong, we tend to refrain. Our moral sense does not stop there, however. We also believe that there are standards that exist apart from us by which we evaluate moral feelings. Moral obligation is a belief that some things ought not to be done regardless of how a person feels about them within herself, regardless of whether it is in her self-interest or not.

Most Americans have no doubt that people in other cultures should honor woman's rights, for example. Though we have been taught that all moral values are relative to individuals and cultures, we can't live like that. In actual practice we inevitably treat some principles as absolute standards by which we judge the behavior of those who don't share our values. What gives us the right to do that, if all moral beliefs are relative? Nothing gives us the right. Yet we can't stop it.

People who laugh at the claim that there is a transcendent moral order do not think that racial genocide is just impractical or self-defeating, but that it is wrong. The Nazis who exterminated Jews may have claimed that they didn't feel it was immoral at all. We don't care. We don't care if they sincerely felt they were doing service to humanity. Maybe the Nazis thought the extermination of the incapable worked for their particular society.

They ought not to have done it. We do not only have moral feelings, but we also have an ineradicable belief that moral standards exist, outside of us, by which our internal moral feelings are evaluated. Why? Why do we think those moral standards exist?
2009-05-14 10:05 am
omg youre right. all morals come from god and god alone. i'm an atheist and all i do is deny the lord and eat babby all day long.
2009-05-14 10:03 am
gee, i don't know.

if there is no god..and since i don't believe in god...

how in the world do i know not to eat my young?
2009-05-14 10:04 am
Its called common sense. I do not murder because life is precious and it would cause pain and suffering for the victim and his/her family. Then there's that jail thing. I do not steal because of the same reasons. I try not to lie about important things because I don't enjoy being lied to. I don't need a religious organization to explain right from wrong to me. My parents did a fine job on that.
2009-05-14 10:19 am
LOGIC TEMPERED WITH COMPASSION
simple formula and you don't need an invisible sky monster who watches little children and burns them forever if they screw up.
2009-05-14 2:59 pm
Here is a Buddhist/Atheist take on it.
http://www.geocities.com/ryunyo/morality.html
http://www.geocities.com/ryunyo/karma.html

There are Buddhists who believe in a god or gods, but not as a religious matter. It's more like believing in the Loch Ness monster. The morality is purely cause-and-effect, which sounds like what you were looking for. Hope it helps!
2009-05-14 10:10 am
Your explanation is clear enough. You're trying to equate morality to religion instead of accepting the fact that all creatures on this planet share bascially the same morality in one form or another. Some animals are monogamous. Some aren't. Most animals do not kill ther own kind even when hungry but some do. Humans are just another animal albeit highhly evolved...most of the time.


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